# Shlomo Biezunski: full text corpus > Generated from site source data. Human pages: https://www.biezunski.com --- --- title: "The Will to Survive" canonical: https://www.biezunski.com/biography format: text/markdown --- Human-readable page: https://www.biezunski.com/biography # The Will to Survive Shlomo Biezunski was born in Łódź, Poland, on May 13, 1926. He grew up above his family's drugstore, near the cinemas and cafés of Piotrkowska Street. By the end of the war, ten days before his nineteenth birthday, his parents and sister had been murdered, and he was the only member of his immediate family still alive. ## Łódź (1926–1939) Łódź was the second-largest city in Poland and the center of its textile trade. It was called the Manchester of Poland. The mills employed thousands. Before the war, the city had close to 600,000 people, and about a third of them were Jews. Shlomo's father, Moshe, was a pharmacist. He had studied in Cologne, Germany, between 1918 and 1920 and spoke German well. In 1920 he came home and joined the Polish Army and fought against the Bolsheviks at the Battle of Warsaw, the Miracle on the Vistula, which turned back the Soviet advance and secured Poland's survival as an independent state under Marshal Piłsudski. Shlomo's mother, Perel, ran the store alongside Moshe. His only sibling was a sister, Manya, six years older, born in October 1920. She finished high school and trained as a secretary. They were middle class. Shlomo said that compared to their neighbors they were the poor ones. Many neighbors were rich and influential in Łódź industry. David Rabinovich, director of the Widzew textile works, lived in the same building. They lived at Narutowicza Street 40, on the fourth floor of a five-story building with an elevator, which was still uncommon in Poland. Across the street was the Hotel Polonia. Around the corner was Piotrkowska Street, with the cinemas and cafés. On the ground floor of their building was the family's drugstore. It sold cosmetics, perfume, and toiletries: Palmolive, Colgate, soaps and creams from Germany, England, and America. Moshe and Perel ran it with a hired clerk. Perel kept a maid for the apartment. The store was open on Saturdays, because Saturday was when the prosperous farmers came in from the countryside to shop near the railroad station. Friday nights the family ate together: fish, meat, cake, coffee. They belonged to a neighborhood synagogue and kept the main holidays. Shlomo started at a private Jewish school at six, a year before the public-school age. He was a good student in everything but Hebrew, which he could never get the hang of. He found that funny later, after he moved to Israel and spoke it every day. He read constantly. There was a lending library nearby, and he worked through Zane Grey, Karl May, Jack London, and Victor Hugo. He read the newspapers too. He was nine when Italy invaded Ethiopia and ten when the Spanish Civil War began, and he followed both. He had little personal trouble as a Jew. His two closest friends were the sons of a neighbor who ran a grocery. In winter the three boys rode Shlomo's Canadian sled in the park across the street, pulled by the neighbors' big German shepherd, and the two friends kept the other Polish boys from bothering him. On Good Friday those same friends would tell him, "You killed our God." The first time, he went home and asked his mother which God he had killed. She told him not to blame them. It was what the priests taught them, she said. Every summer the family rented a cottage in the woods outside the city. In the last summer before the war his parents bought him a new English bicycle. The family was still at the cottage when the war began, and had trouble getting home. Shlomo stood at the roadside with the bicycle and watched the Polish Army fall back toward Warsaw. A Polish soldier walked up and took the bicycle. It was the first thing the war took from him. ## The Invasion (1939–1940) Germany invaded Poland on September 1, 1939. Łódź was shelled but not badly damaged. Within six days the German army was in the city. The Germans posted placards in Polish and German ordering people out to Piotrkowska Street to greet the army. People went. Shlomo went too. He was thirteen, and he said plainly that he was impressed. The Germans came fully motorized, with cars, trucks, tanks, and even their horses carried on trucks. The Polish Army had ridden horses. A large swastika flag hung down the front of City Hall. He stood and watched it. In those first weeks, before the fighting was over, the Germans put out a call for men to march to the defense of Warsaw. About a thousand went on foot. German dive-bombers caught them on the open roads and machine-gunned them. Moshe concluded that the point had been to clog the roads ahead of the Polish Army. He turned back after the first attacks. "What's happened, happened," he said. "I'm going back to my family." For the first months after that the regular army ran the city and did not single out the Jews, and the store did well. German soldiers wanted soap, and the family had cases of it. The officers paid cash and sat in the corner of the shop. The maid and the store clerk had left for the countryside, so the family hired a Jewish girl named Eva, who had long blond hair and looked German. Moshe and Perel spoke perfect German. Customers did not believe they were Jews. Then the Gestapo and the SS arrived. The family had to put a sign in the window: Jewish store. The Germans began taking Jews off the street for labor. They emptied the Hotel Polonia of its guests and moved officers in. Any Jew passing the door had to take off his hat and bow. Because the apartment was large, the family was ordered to take in a German officer, an older administrative man with a servant. He warned them that drunk soldiers were looking for Jewish women, and told them not to open the door at night, to call him instead. Sometimes he brought a loaf of bread. ## January 1940 In January the Gestapo went through the city taking Jewish men. They took Moshe with more than three hundred others. They brought the men to an electric trolley station, packed them into the cars, and shot them. Then they telephoned the families and told them to come for the bodies. Perel and Manya were afraid to go. Shlomo went. He took his Canadian sled and another boy went with him. They found his father's body, covered it, and pulled it across the city to the Jewish cemetery, so that he could be given a proper burial. He was thirteen. In the weeks that followed, his mother sold off the store's stock for cash and closed it. She had a shoemaker sew pockets into the family's shoes and hid gold coins in them. ## The Ghetto (1940–1944) In the spring of 1940 the family was ordered into the new Jewish quarter, the Łódź Ghetto, in the poor northern part of the city. They could take some bedding and a few pots. Everything else stayed behind. The ghetto was sealed on April 30, 1940, with about 164,000 people inside. It was the second-largest ghetto in occupied Poland and, because the Germans found it useful, the last to be destroyed. At first the three of them rented a room from another family. Later they were given a room in a small four-room house, one family to a room, with a stove in the middle, an outhouse in the yard, and one light bulb. The first winter there was nothing to burn. The yard fences and the wooden outhouse door had been pulled apart for fuel. Shlomo read next to the warm stove pipe. Ice formed on the walls by the windows from the steam of cooking. Everyone had to work. Work was what brought food. Shlomo was put in a metal factory and trained on a lathe. He was fourteen. Manya worked as a secretary in a workshop that made German uniforms. Perel made the straw overshoes German sentries wore on the Russian front. ![Workers at the Łódź Ghetto metal workshop, 1941](images/shlomo_ghetto_lodz_1941.jpg) *Workers at the Łódź Ghetto metal workshop, 1941. Shlomo is at the bottom center of the photograph. He was fourteen or fifteen years old. Photo: Biezunski family collection.* The bread ration was about 100 grams a day, with a little brown sugar and oil. The factory soup was warm water with three or four cubes of potato. People cooked thin potato peels overnight with a little flour into something like a cake. They grew radish leaves and boiled them like spinach. Children dug through the ash heaps outside the old factories for unburned coal. The family did a little better than most at first, because of the gold. A Polish woman who had done their laundry before the war met them at the cemetery fence, where there was no guard post, and they could pass things through to the Polish side. She traded food for the coins. Some of Moshe's old customers, men who stayed prominent inside the ghetto, helped them. One, a man named Sztewi, helped Perel find work. The big men died first. Shlomo had always been thin, a poor eater, which had worried his mother, but now it kept him alive. He remembered not being sick once in four years, while typhus and dysentery killed people in the street. The dead lay where they fell. The hunger was not the only danger. The German criminal police kept lists of which Jews had been wealthy. Their chief, a man named Suder, had grown up among Jews and spoke Yiddish, and would walk into the ghetto and ask people in Yiddish when they thought Hitler would be dead. Anyone who answered could be arrested. They arrested Perel. While she was gone, Suder's men came to the apartment, pulled Manya out of the room, and searched everything. They found a brass scale and took it. They found Manya's gold ring, but the ruby was missing from the setting, and they accused Perel of hiding a diamond. She said it had been a cheap ruby. They found it, eventually. Suder beat her himself. He demanded, in Yiddish, where she had hidden the harter and the vaykhe, the hard coins and the paper money. He knew all the expressions. She said she had nothing. After three weeks they released her. She came back physically unrecognizable. She had lost even more weight on top of what the ghetto had already taken. She could not go to work. She lay in bed. She never really recuperated. In 1942 the Germans sealed off each district in turn and chose the children, the old, and the sick for deportation to the Chełmno killing center. Shlomo's aunt, alone with a small child, saw the Germans coming for her and jumped from an upper window with the child rather than be taken. Perel was caught in the round-up and marked for deportation. Sztewi had her released. Through all of this, Shlomo kept his head down. The one time he actively defied the Germans, he nearly did not survive it. He and the other young men on his shift joined a strike. They did not understand what a strike meant under occupation. The Jewish police arrested them and brought them to the station, where Chaim Rumkowski, the head of the ghetto's Jewish administration, told them they were lucky the Gestapo had not heard of it, because if they had, the strikers would have been shot or hanged. They went back to work. There was no way out in any case. The ghetto was ringed by a fence and barbed wire, with a German guard every few hundred meters. A trolley line for Poles ran through it. The riders drew a finger across their throats at the people behind the wire. The Germans paid a kilo of sugar and a bottle of vodka for a Jew turned in. ## August 1944 By the summer of 1944 the front was close. The Red Army had pushed west to the Vistula and then stopped, and the Germans used the pause to empty the ghetto. The final liquidation of Łódź began in August 1944. Over the next weeks about 67,000 people were put on trains. When the Soviets reached the city in January 1945, they found 877 Jews alive. The German administrator of the Łódź Ghetto, Hans Biebow, told the Jews they were being sent to work in Germany, where there was food, and that they should bring large pots. The family tried to hide in the fields, but there were guards everywhere. At the station each person was given a loaf of bread, a little sugar, and a head of cabbage. Then forty or fifty were packed into each cattle car, with one bucket and a small window. The journey took two or three days. They arrived at night at Auschwitz-Birkenau under floodlights, with dogs, SS, and machine guns everywhere. Men were sent one way, women another. That was the last time Shlomo saw his mother and his sister. They were murdered in the gas chambers, as Shlomo later came to understand. The SS demanded all valuables. Shlomo had nothing to give. The men were kept standing at roll call for three days with no food, and anyone who fell stayed where he fell. They slept on a stone-and-wood floor under blankets made for horses. His head was shaved and disinfectant was rubbed into the skin, and it burned all night. His mouth was checked for gold fillings. They took his clothes and left him a shirt and a belt. A number was tattooed on his arm: B-6901. Then they brought hot soup in washbasins, one basin per four men, no spoons, four hundred people fighting to eat. Shlomo used a piece of glass to shape a scrap of wood into a crude spoon with a sharp point at one end, so he could fight for his share. One night in the barracks, a boy his age from the ghetto factory sat down next to him. Szalek was what people called Shlomo in Polish. "Szalek," the boy said, "we're not going to survive this." Shlomo told him to stop talking that way. They were young, and there were old men in the camp who wanted to live. The war would end. The next morning the boy was dead in the same place. No one had touched him. ## The Selection (Autumn 1944) Over the weeks that followed their arrival, the selections at Birkenau came often. The whole block was stripped naked and marched past the SS. The test, as Shlomo put it, was meat on your backside. If a man still had some, he could work a little longer. If not, he was, in camp slang, a Muselmann, marked for the gas. One day the SS came looking for skilled men, and a German civilian engineer was with them. Shlomo was not a strong man. He was, as he put it later, thin enough to go through the eye of a needle. The engineer asked him, in German, what he was. "I am a lathe hand," Shlomo said. The SS officer looked him over and said he was too thin to work. At Birkenau, that meant the crematorium. The engineer overruled him. "No, we need him," he said in German. That sentence was his ticket to life. The engineer was staffing a machine shop at a coal mine. Shlomo and 359 others were put on trucks and driven about thirty kilometers to Fürstengrube, a sub-camp of Auschwitz at a hard-coal mine near Mysłowice. The mine belonged to a company controlled by IG Farben, and its coal was meant for the IG Farben works at Monowitz. About 1,800 prisoners were held there. ## Fürstengrube (September 1944–January 1945) The new men stood naked on the roll-call ground for hours into a cold September night before they were given striped uniforms, wooden shoes, soap, soup, and a ration of bread. Shlomo was first sent into the mine, then moved into the machine shop, as the engineer had intended. Two men ran the camp. The SS appointed a German political prisoner named Hermann as camp elder, the senior prisoner responsible for managing the others, and the SS commandant himself was a young lieutenant named Max Schmidt. By the accounts Shlomo knew, and by several Fürstengrube survivor testimonies, Schmidt did not personally abuse or kill prisoners. He had the post through his wife's family. Her father had run the old mine before the war, and his wife and her sister lived nearby. Once, watching Shlomo work on a large steel plate with his apron over the Jewish star, Schmidt asked whether he was Russian, surprised that a Jew so young was a skilled worker. Schmidt had not always commanded Fürstengrube. His predecessor was Otto Moll, one of the SS men who ran the gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz. The Christmas before Shlomo arrived, while Moll was still in command, a German Kapo escaped. Moll lined up the whole camp in the snow at midnight and machine-gunned Jews at random, though the man who had escaped was German. Schmidt was at the camp by then as a junior officer, and the prisoners said it was he who stopped Moll, telling him it was Christmas and there had been enough killing for one night. After that, Moll was promoted back to Auschwitz, because he was good at killing. He was tried and hanged in 1946. Shlomo's first job at the camp was outside, alongside a Polish civilian miner repairing the rails. The miner liked him, told him he should marry his daughter after the war, and the miner's wife began packing Shlomo a breakfast of two slices of bread with butter. When the engineer moved him into the machine shop, Shlomo was, by camp standards, protected. A prisoner-foreman nicknamed the Kaiser, a Kapo who had killed men with his hands, was not allowed to touch the skilled workers, because beating them would have hurt the work the engineer cared about. There were Italian prisoners of war and French civilian workers in the shop who sometimes shared fruit. The machine-shop camp issued bread several times a day. Shlomo stood at his lathe chewing whatever he was given and hoarding bread from anyone who would share. Adam, the foreman, watched him and asked why he ate like that, chewing steadily like a cow. Shlomo told him he was still hungry. Four years without a piece of bread. He stored whatever he could get. Over the next few months the regular food brought back his strength. He kept imagining his mother might one day see him again, alive and eating, growing stronger, doing better than the camp had given him any reason to expect. He was her only son, and he told himself she was thinking of him too. He did not yet know she was dead. That winter, four or five prisoners, Poles and one Jew, dug an escape tunnel from a coal bin toward the rail line. Before they could finish it, a load of steel dumped from a railcar overhead collapsed it. The next Sunday the senior SS came from Auschwitz, brought the camp an unusually good soup, and then hanged all of the men who had dug the tunnel while the whole camp stood and watched. ## The March (January–April 1945) In January 1945 the Soviets reached Auschwitz, and the Germans began moving the prisoners west on foot, in what came to be called the death marches. On January 19, Max Schmidt led about 1,300 prisoners of Fürstengrube out of the camp. The sick who could not walk were left behind. A week later the SS came back and killed nearly all of them, shooting into the barracks and burning the hospital block. Shlomo marched. They walked through snow toward Gliwice, about eighty kilometers. Anyone who fell behind or stepped out of the column was shot, and the gunfire came steadily from the rear. Shlomo had leather shoes, issued by the machine shop, and snow did not pack onto leather the way it did onto the others' wooden clogs, so he could keep walking. He and another prisoner had been ordered to carry an SS guard's belongings on a pole. Partway through the march they threw the bundle into the snow, ran forward, and disappeared into the mass of identical striped uniforms. Behind them the guard was hollering: "Where are my things?" They kept moving. In a column of thousands of men dressed alike, no one was going to find them. During a rest stop, they found one of the camp's small supply carts abandoned at the roadside. It still held dried pea-soup powder, the kind the camp kitchen dissolved in water. Shlomo saw it and thought that on a march you never knew what might turn out to be food. He tore the sleeves from his spare shirt, made them into sacks, and filled them with the powder to carry on the march. When they reached Gliwice, at the rail yards he saw bodies stacked like cordwood, five and six feet high, laid out in neat rows and dusted with lime. He spent the night standing in a small booth because there was no room to lie down. In the morning they were loaded into open coal cars, packed like herring. Shlomo was lucky to end up with his back against the wall, while the men crushed in the center went mad. He still had a wool blanket, which he had cut into a poncho against the wind. The train was routed south through Czechoslovakia. The journey took seven days. The guards said there was no food, and there was none, one piece of bread and then nothing. A friend had a pot. Using their belts, they scooped snow into it, and Shlomo mixed in the pea powder he had saved. It was so salty it made him desperate to drink. The men in the middle ate their belts and their shoes. One day the SS ordered them to throw out the bodies. The prisoners said there were no bodies, until they looked down and saw they had been standing on the dead. Of about 10,000 on that transport, Shlomo was told, 2,000 arrived alive. In Czechoslovakia people stood on the overpasses and threw down bread, fruit, and smoked bacon, and children ran beside the train with water. At the station in Prague, Shlomo saw an old German guard beside carts of military bread, and asked him in German for a piece. The man gave him a whole loaf, then brought more for the others in the car. They arrived at Mittelbau-Dora, near Nordhausen in the Harz mountains, where prisoners built the V-2 rockets in tunnels dug into the mountain. Brought into a washroom on arrival, the men stood for hours drinking water. Shlomo drank for half an hour. At Mittelbau-Dora the SS guards were looking for anything that would keep them off the Russian front. Without prisoners to guard, a man was sent to fight. When an older Austrian guard was assembling a work detail of skilled men, Shlomo started to drift away toward a young man he recognized from the ghetto, Judenherz, his sister Manya's former boyfriend, whom he had spotted in the crowd with a broken arm. The Austrian caught him by the collar. "Du kleiner Dreher," he said, you little lathe hand, you come with us. Of the roughly 1,300 who had marched out of Fürstengrube, a few hundred were still alive. From them, three hundred were taken to work in an underground factory, where for the most part there was little actual work to do, through April. Shlomo worked next to Ukrainian civilians who were already packing to go home. ## North (April–May 1945) When April ended, Schmidt gathered what remained of his group and marched them out of the area. They went north, through Heiligenstadt and Magdeburg, for days. On the road through Magdeburg, Shlomo watched German teenagers his own age walking freely through their city while he went down the middle of the road under guard. He was eighteen. The best years of a young man's life, he would say later, were gone. He had spent them starving and being moved from camp to camp. His parents were dead. They reached the Elbe and were put on a barge towed by a tug, which carried them down the river and into the Kiel Canal to Lübeck on the Baltic. Schmidt's parents had a farm at Ahrensbök, in Schleswig-Holstein, and that is where he brought them. The roughly 250 surviving prisoners were kept in a large building along the road, with the fifteen remaining SS on the other side. To feed them, the guards rented the prisoners out to local farmers for labor. One farmer fed them well and sent potatoes back for the others. Shlomo visited him every Sunday for years after the war. Two Polish girls working on a farm learned he was Polish and offered to hide him in their attic. He did not dare. The older guard, for whom Shlomo translated, told him the war was ending, to make sure he survived, and not to run. While they were near Ahrensbök the International Red Cross came, looking for Jews from Western Europe who spoke Dutch, French, or English, and took them away. The Polish Jews were passed over and handed a few cigarettes and some chocolate. ## The Cap Arcona (May 1945) ![The Cap Arcona at her launch, Hamburg, 1927](images/cap_arcona_1927_prewar.jpg) *The Cap Arcona at her launch in Hamburg, May 1927. Before the war she was the flagship of the Hamburg–South America line. Source: [Wikimedia Commons](https://commons.wikimedia.org/), public domain.* On May 2, 1945, Schmidt brought his prisoners to Neustadt, on the Bay of Lübeck, a submarine base. Out in the bay, anchored about five kilometers offshore because the harbor was too small for her, stood the Cap Arcona, before the war a 27,000-ton liner of the Hamburg–South America line. The prisoners were told they would be taken aboard and shipped to Sweden. When the column reached the waterfront, the naval officer in charge of loading refused them. He already had 8,000 prisoners aboard, he said, and nowhere to put 300 more. The SS returned to shore. The port commandant telephoned an order, and the officer took them. Because they came last, Shlomo's group was put in the highest cabins, ten men in a one-person cabin near the top deck. That is the reason any of them lived. The RAF pilots attacking that day did not know the ships held prisoners. The Cap Arcona was not alone in the bay. German authorities had also loaded prisoners from the Neuengamme camps onto a freighter called the Thielbek and a second liner, the Deutschland, anchored nearby. The British had broken German codes and believed SS men were gathering ships in the bay to flee to Norway. The Swedish and Swiss Red Cross had warned British intelligence on May 2 that the ships were full of prisoners, but the warning did not reach the pilots. The prisoners were below deck, and the ships carried no Red Cross markings. On the morning of May 3, 1945, Hawker Typhoon fighter-bombers of the RAF came in over the bay in waves, firing rockets and cannon and dropping bombs. The Cap Arcona was hit and began to burn from the top down. Roughly 4,500 prisoners were aboard, most of them Poles and Russians from the Neuengamme camps, and a few hundred Jews from Fürstengrube, who were the only Jews on the ship. Shlomo's group was locked ten to a cabin near the top. They could see nothing. The door opened outward into a corridor jammed with men, and they could not open it. They heard the screaming through the door. They felt the ship begin to list. The water was about seven degrees Celsius. Meanwhile, on the open decks, the SS had access to the ship's lifejacket stores. The prisoners did not. The SS went over the side. German trawlers later pulled about 400 of them out alive. The ship rolled and went down, but the bay was shallow and part of the hull stayed above the surface. The men in the cabin opened the porthole. One after another tried to force himself through the round opening and could not. Shlomo took off his clothes and went through it. He climbed out onto a cluster of wooden buoys nearby, heavy timbers bound together, and sat there, naked. After the screaming, it was quiet. ![The Cap Arcona burning in the Bay of Lübeck, May 3, 1945](images/cap_arcona_burning_1945.jpg) *The Cap Arcona burning in the Bay of Lübeck, May 3, 1945, photographed by the Royal Air Force. Of the roughly 7,000 people who died in the bay that day, most were concentration camp prisoners locked below deck. Source: Royal Air Force / [Wikimedia Commons](https://commons.wikimedia.org/), public domain.* Near dark the British understood that the ships had been full of prisoners and sent fishing boats out to search the water. From the buoys they took thirty-seven people. Shlomo was one of them. They gave him a blanket. A British tank officer gave him a tin of biscuits. A naval officer came down and asked him, in English, how he felt. Shlomo took the man's hand and kissed it. "Sir," he said, "we waited five years for you." He had pneumonia and was taken to a hospital, where the German staff treated him as an ordinary patient. British forces had reached Neustadt that afternoon. Of the roughly 7,000 people killed in the bay that day, on the Cap Arcona and on the freighter Thielbek sunk beside her, most died hours before the British arrived. Adam, the foreman from Fürstengrube, died on the ship with his two brothers. They were trying to get out. For the next two springs, the bodies came up in the bay, and German prisoners of war were sent to collect them. He was free, ten days before his nineteenth birthday. ## After (1945–2020) After the war, he had no home to return to in Poland. Shlomo stayed in the displaced-persons camp at Neustadt about two and a half years, working as an interpreter for the British Jewish Relief Unit. He could have gone to Britain, taken in by a Jewish family there. ![Shlomo Biezunski at the Neustadt DP camp, 1946](images/shlomo_neustadt_1946.png) *Shlomo at the displaced-persons camp in Neustadt in Holstein, 1946. The barracks of the former German submarine school are visible behind him. Photo: Biezunski family collection.* His name appears in the camp's records, preserved today in the [Arolsen Archives](https://www.arolsen-archives.org). A nominal roll of Jewish residents dated May 15, 1947 lists him as entry number eleven. The surname is misspelled. The birth year is correct, but a correction in the ledger makes it hard to read. The document survived. ![Arolsen Archives nominal roll, DP Camp Neustadt in Holstein, May 15, 1947](images/arolsen_neustadt_dp_list_p1.jpg) *Nominal roll of Jewish residents of the DP camp at Neustadt in Holstein, dated May 15, 1947, preserved in the [Arolsen Archives](https://www.arolsen-archives.org). Entry no. 11 reads: "Brzezinski Salomon, 13.5.29, Lodz." That is Shlomo Biezunski. Salomon is the formal name for Shlomo, the birthdate and city match exactly, the surname is a phonetic misspelling of Biezunski, and the birth year (written as 29 with an apparent correction toward 26, in the list's DD.MM.YY format) should read 26, for 1926. Source: [Arolsen Archives](https://www.arolsen-archives.org), [document 82019536](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/document/82019536), used with attribution.* He decided to go to Palestine. He moved to the Bergen-Belsen DP camp, joined the Haganah, and went to work for the Bricha, helping survivors across the Alps into Italy and onto ships for Palestine. He had been Szalek in Polish, Salik in Yiddish. Now he became Shlomo. In April 1948 he sailed from Marseille, through the Strait of Gibraltar, and landed at Haifa, shortly before Israel declared independence. ![Shlomo at Bergen-Belsen, 1948](images/shlomo_bergen_belsen_1948.jpg) *Shlomo (left) at a train platform, Bergen-Belsen, 1948, during his time with the Bricha, the network helping survivors from Europe toward Palestine. Photo: Biezunski family collection.* He was drafted at once into the Negev Brigade and fought in the 1948 war, in the campaign that took the Negev down to Eilat. He was on active duty from 1948 to 1950 and in the reserves for nineteen years. ![Shlomo with his unit of the Negev Brigade, circa 1948–1950](images/shlomo_idf_unit.jpg) *Shlomo with his unit of the Negev Brigade, circa 1948–1950. He fought in the campaign that pushed south through Beersheba to Eilat. Photo: Biezunski family collection.* Through those years, the losses did not leave him. He had lost his whole family. A bullet has no address, he said. At least he had a few cousins in Israel who would remember him, which was more than many of the new immigrants had. He found work with the Israel Electric Corporation, where he met Bella, an army corporal at headquarters in Ramat Gan. They married in 1955 and had two sons, Ram and Oded. When the Sinai campaign came in 1956, his elder son was a month old, and he took his kit bag the next day and went. He later opened his own tool-and-die shop, and served again in the reserves in 1967. After 1967 the Israeli economy was poor. In the United States, the war in Vietnam had created a demand for skilled machinists that American factories could not fill. Shlomo wrote to the U.S. Department of Labor and got a work visa quickly. He came by ship to New York and then to Paterson, New Jersey, where textile men from Łódź had built the silk industry. He worked at Universal Manufacturing, took the overtime, and saved enough to buy a house in Fair Lawn that was ready when Bella and the boys arrived in 1969. After eight years he took a job at Sandvik, the steel company, and worked there until he retired. Five of his cousins and an uncle had survived the war. The rest of his family had been murdered. He and Bella had five grandchildren. Bella died in December 2012. Shlomo died on August 20, 2020, in Fair Lawn, at 94. He is survived by his sons Ram (with his wife Gabi and their children Yonatan and Nitzan) and Michael, formerly Oded (with his wife Maria and their children Daniel, Aaron, and Elana). He did not talk much about the war, even to his sons. He said he did not want to teach them to hate. He told them one thing. "You were born a Jew, you will live a Jew, you will die a Jew. Don't even try to forget it, because others won't let you forget it. Stand up for who you are." At the end of his testimony, he was asked how he had survived. He said he did not know. "Only a will," he said. "You had to have the will to survive." ## Sources The personal events described here come from [Shlomo's testimony](/holocaust-testimony/video) and memoir. Historical sources were used to verify dates, places, institutions, and broader context. Where the testimony recording was unclear, details were checked against his written memoir and the documented history. ### Primary sources - Shlomo Biezunski, [video testimony](/holocaust-testimony/video), recorded for the Kean College Oral Testimonies Project of the Holocaust Resource Center, affiliated with the [Fortunoff Video Archive for Holocaust Testimonies at Yale University](https://fortunoff.library.yale.edu/archive/overview/). Interviewers Jeanie Miller and Bernard Weinstein. The source for nearly all personal detail and all direct quotations. - Shlomo Biezunski, written memoir, May 2016. - [Obituary of Shlomo S. Biezunski](/obituary) (Fair Lawn, New Jersey, died August 20, 2020). ### Historical references - [United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Holocaust Encyclopedia](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org): the Łódź ghetto, Chełmno, Auschwitz, Neuengamme, Bergen-Belsen, the death marches, and the Brihah. - [Yad Vashem](https://www.yadvashem.org), "The Final Days of the Lodz Ghetto" and "The Last Deportees: From Lodz to Auschwitz". - [Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum](https://www.auschwitz.org), Fürstengrube sub-camp, Auschwitz III-Monowitz, and "The 70th Anniversary of Deportations of Jews from the Lodz Ghetto to Auschwitz". - [Sub-Camps of Auschwitz](https://www.subcamps-auschwitz.org), "Arbeitslager Fürstengrube", documenting commandants Otto Moll and Max Schmidt, the January 19, 1945 evacuation, the death march to Gliwice and on to Mittelbau-Dora, the route to Ahrensbök, the transfer of prisoners to the Cap Arcona, and the January 27 massacre of those left behind. - [Mittelbau-Dora Concentration Camp Memorial](https://www.dora.de). - [Neuengamme Concentration Camp Memorial](https://www.kz-gedenkstaette-neuengamme.de), "Bay of Lübeck / Neustadt in Holstein: the sinking of the prisoner ships", on the May 3, 1945 RAF attack, the Red Cross warning that did not reach the pilots, and the death toll. - [Arolsen Archives](https://www.arolsen-archives.org), "[#everynamecounts: survivors of the Cap Arcona](https://arolsen-archives.org/en/news/everynamecounts-new-information-on-survivors-of-the-cap-arcona/)", which notes that a few hundred of the prisoners came from Auschwitz-Fürstengrube, and [document 82019536](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/document/82019536), the nominal roll of Jewish residents of the Neustadt DP camp, May 15, 1947, in which Shlomo appears as entry no. 11 under the misspelled name "Brzezinski Salomon." - [Jewish Virtual Library](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org): Mordechai Chaim Rumkowski, the Bricha, and the Negev Brigade. - [Encyclopaedia Britannica](https://www.britannica.com): the Battle of Warsaw (1920), IG Farben, the V-2 missile, the Haganah, the Arab-Israeli wars, the Suez Crisis, and the Six-Day War. ### Image credits - Łódź Ghetto metal workshop (1941): Biezunski family collection, courtesy [biezunski.com](/). Shlomo is at the bottom center of the photograph. - Cap Arcona at launch (1927): source unknown, [Wikimedia Commons](https://commons.wikimedia.org/), public domain. - Cap Arcona burning (May 3, 1945): Royal Air Force, [Wikimedia Commons](https://commons.wikimedia.org/), public domain. - Arolsen Archives DP list (May 15, 1947): [Arolsen Archives](https://www.arolsen-archives.org), [document 82019536](https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/document/82019536), used with attribution. - All other personal photographs of Shlomo Biezunski: Biezunski family collection, courtesy [biezunski.com](/). --- --- title: "Shlomo’s Video Interview Transcript" canonical: https://www.biezunski.com/holocaust-testimony/transcript format: text/markdown --- # Shlomo’s Video Interview Transcript Human-readable page: https://www.biezunski.com/holocaust-testimony/transcript On May 12, 1988, Shlomo sat for an interview, sharing his life story in his own words. The transcript below provides a detailed record of his testimony, allowing readers to locate specific words or phrases within his account of the Holocaust. 1 00:00:24,320 –> 00:00:27,599 Good afternoon, my name is Jeanie Miller. 2 00:00:27,599 –> 00:00:29,720 I am a member of the Kean College Oral 3 00:00:29,720 –> 00:00:31,640 Testimonies Project of the 4 00:00:31,640 –> 00:00:34,160 Holocaust Resource Center. We are 5 00:00:34,160 –> 00:00:36,559 affiliated with the Video Archives for 6 00:00:36,559 –> 00:00:39,440 Holocaust Testimonies at the Sterling 7 00:00:39,440 –> 00:00:42,680 Library of Yale University. Sharing the 8 00:00:42,680 –> 00:00:46,079 interview with me is Bernard Weinstein. 9 00:00:46,079 –> 00:00:49,320 We are privileged to welcome Shlomo 10 00:00:49,320 –> 00:00:52,280 Biezunski, a survivor presently living in 11 00:00:52,280 –> 00:00:55,160 Fair Lawn, New Jersey, who has generously 12 00:00:55,160 –> 00:00:58,039 volunteered to give testimony about his 13 00:00:58,039 –> 00:01:00,439 experiences before, during, 14 00:01:00,440 –> 00:01:03,439 and after the Holocaust. 15 00:01:03,439 –> 00:01:05,920 Welcome Mr. Biezunski. I wonder if you 16 00:01:05,920 –> 00:01:07,640 could tell us about the town that 17 00:01:07,640 –> 00:01:10,439 you were born in and were growing up in? 18 00:01:10,439 –> 00:01:14,600 I was born on May 13, 19 00:01:14,600 –> 00:01:19,240 1926 in the town of Łódź in Poland. 20 00:01:19,240 –> 00:01:22,040 This was a big industrial center – 21 00:01:22,040 –> 00:01:24,479 textiles. We used to call it before the war 22 00:01:24,479 –> 00:01:27,439 the Manchester of Poland. Many of the 23 00:01:27,439 –> 00:01:30,200 factories used to employ hundreds, even 24 00:01:30,200 –> 00:01:34,960 thousands of people and there was a 25 00:01:34,960 –> 00:01:39,600 population of almost 600,000. 26 00:01:39,600 –> 00:01:42,720 What percentage was Jews? 27 00:01:42,720 –> 00:01:46,159 The percentage was – one-third was Jews. 28 00:01:46,159 –> 00:01:49,920 You have – many people who developed 29 00:01:49,920 –> 00:01:51,799 the silk industry and textile industry 30 00:01:51,799 –> 00:01:54,040 in Paterson, New Jersey came from Łódź. 31 00:01:54,040 –> 00:01:56,399 It’s known – they brought – by coming 32 00:01:56,400 –> 00:01:58,839 to the United States, they brought with them 33 00:01:58,840 –> 00:02:01,398 the skills and they developed it here. 34 00:02:01,399 –> 00:02:02,977 Like I said, one-third of the 35 00:02:03,177 –> 00:02:05,039 population were Jews, were very 36 00:02:05,039 –> 00:02:08,720 involved in the trade profession and took a 37 00:02:08,720 –> 00:02:12,480 very active life in 38 00:02:12,480 –> 00:02:15,560 Jewish culture – and we actually 39 00:02:15,560 –> 00:02:19,120 had even two newspapers, that my father 40 00:02:19,120 –> 00:02:23,560 in Yiddish used to read. I remember there was Der Haynt 41 00:02:23,560 –> 00:02:26,080 and Der Moment, that was the two Jewish – 42 00:02:26,080 –> 00:02:37,000 there was a very vibrant city and my father – 43 00:02:37,000 –> 00:02:39,879 studied pharmacy in Köln. 44 00:02:39,879 –> 00:02:43,840 He had a brother. From 1918 – 45 00:02:43,840 –> 00:02:47,519 to 1920, he was in Germany, at that time, in 46 00:02:47,519 –> 00:02:50,040 the Köln University – I understand that it only 47 00:02:50,040 –> 00:02:52,680 took two years at that time to get a – 48 00:02:52,680 –> 00:02:55,360 and we had a like we call a drugstore 49 00:02:55,360 –> 00:03:00,480 here, in Łódź. 50 00:03:00,480 –> 00:03:05,040 And actually I had only an older sister, 51 00:03:05,040 –> 00:03:07,640 her name was Manya, she was born on, I don’t remember 52 00:03:07,640 –> 00:03:12,400 the date, but she was born in October 1920. 53 00:03:13,040 –> 00:03:15,720 I remember those telling that my 54 00:03:15,720 –> 00:03:18,280 father came in 1920 back to Poland and he 55 00:03:18,280 –> 00:03:21,400 went to the Army and fought with the 56 00:03:21,400 –> 00:03:24,319 Polish Army by defeating the Communists. 57 00:03:24,319 –> 00:03:29,040 It was in a famous battle, it was called the 58 00:03:29,040 –> 00:03:32,280 Miracle on the Vistula. It was a defeat for the Bolshevik Army 59 00:03:32,280 –> 00:03:35,920 at that time, the Poles under Marshal Piłsudski, 60 00:03:35,920 –> 00:03:38,439 he was a Polish marshal, and Poland became an 61 00:03:38,439 –> 00:03:42,840 independent state. We belonged to the middle class. 62 00:03:42,840 –> 00:03:46,239 We used to be members in a local synagogue – 63 00:03:46,239 –> 00:03:53,799 it was in the neighborhood. We lived on 64 00:03:53,799 –> 00:03:58,500 the street was named Narutowicza, number 40. 65 00:03:58,501 –> 00:04:01,239 It was in one of the best parts of 66 00:04:01,239 –> 00:04:03,519 Łódź. Next to us was a big 67 00:04:03,519 –> 00:04:07,760 hotel – Polonia, the name was Polonia. 68 00:04:07,760 –> 00:04:10,959 There was a main street – Piotrkowska street – it was 69 00:04:10,959 –> 00:04:14,120 the main throughway: all the cinemas 70 00:04:14,120 –> 00:04:16,478 and theaters and where the young people 71 00:04:16,478 –> 00:04:19,798 used to promenade, forth and back – it was 72 00:04:19,798 –> 00:04:23,520 a short distance. We lived on a fourth floor, 73 00:04:23,520 –> 00:04:30,840 on a five floor house, it was a very modern house 74 00:04:30,840 –> 00:04:34,080 with an elevator, at that time which was not so 75 00:04:34,080 –> 00:04:39,400 very popular in Poland. Actually, we were the middle class 76 00:04:39,400 –> 00:04:42,240 but compared to our neighbors we were 77 00:04:42,240 –> 00:04:44,960 you can say, very poor, because many 78 00:04:44,960 –> 00:04:47,120 of our neighbors were very rich and very 79 00:04:47,120 –> 00:04:52,320 influential people in the industrial part of 80 00:04:52,320 –> 00:04:57,600 Łódź. But we had the six, seven room 81 00:04:57,600 –> 00:05:00,360 apartment. My mother had always 82 00:05:00,360 –> 00:05:03,360 help. A maid, a young 83 00:05:03,360 –> 00:05:06,080 girl, a Polish girl, used to help out with the 84 00:05:06,080 –> 00:05:10,280 household, and downstairs we had our 85 00:05:10,280 –> 00:05:12,360 store. My father, every morning, 86 00:05:12,360 –> 00:05:15,199 used to go downstairs and he had also a 87 00:05:15,199 –> 00:05:19,800 help and assistant, a girl, and I used to – 88 00:05:19,800 –> 00:05:23,720 at the age of six, I started to attend a 89 00:05:23,720 –> 00:05:25,960 private school, Jewish private school, it was 90 00:05:25,960 –> 00:05:28,919 normal that the education age in Poland 91 00:05:28,919 –> 00:05:30,680 was from seven, you went to first grade, but 92 00:05:30,680 –> 00:05:32,039 if you went to a private school you 93 00:05:32,039 –> 00:05:34,960 could start at the age of six. 94 00:05:34,960 –> 00:05:38,360 And all my life, actually the next 95 00:05:38,360 –> 00:05:42,120 six years, I went to the private school. 96 00:05:42,120 –> 00:05:45,679 I was a very good reader. 97 00:05:45,680 –> 00:05:48,479 I read very well, we had a library not 98 00:05:48,479 –> 00:05:52,000 far, a private library, and I was 99 00:05:52,000 –> 00:05:54,720 very interested in reading 100 00:05:54,720 –> 00:05:58,280 different books like Zane Grey and Karl 101 00:05:58,280 –> 00:06:02,600 May and Jack London and 102 00:06:02,600 –> 00:06:05,720 Victor Hugo – even at a very early age. 103 00:06:05,720 –> 00:06:09,440 And I also took interest by 104 00:06:09,440 –> 00:06:12,440 reading newspapers. I remember being the 105 00:06:12,440 –> 00:06:15,880 age of nine – it was the beginning 106 00:06:15,880 –> 00:06:19,280 of the Ethiopian war with 107 00:06:19,280 –> 00:06:21,680 Italy – all the atrocities and 108 00:06:21,680 –> 00:06:24,520 Haile Selassie, I remember there was a song 109 00:06:24,520 –> 00:06:26,680 in Polish that they wrote, what I even still 110 00:06:26,680 –> 00:06:29,199 remember, that they wrote about the war. 111 00:06:29,199 –> 00:06:32,400 And after was the civil war in Spain 112 00:06:32,400 –> 00:06:35,360 in 1936, it started and I remember as a 113 00:06:35,360 –> 00:06:39,199 kid I was very active, very 114 00:06:39,199 –> 00:06:42,280 interested in what’s going 115 00:06:42,280 –> 00:06:46,639 on. I had an older sister, we had a very 116 00:06:46,639 –> 00:06:48,800 comfortable and pleasant life she went 117 00:06:48,800 –> 00:06:52,360 actually already when the war broke out she was 118 00:06:52,360 –> 00:06:56,199 18 and she finished a high school, was 119 00:06:56,199 –> 00:07:02,400 was a high school but also had a commercial background., 120 00:07:02,400 –> 00:07:05,720 Every year, we used to go rent 121 00:07:05,720 –> 00:07:07,639 a cottage like here in the Catskills 122 00:07:07,639 –> 00:07:09,319 we used to go over there next to Łódź 123 00:07:09,319 –> 00:07:12,199 very wooded areas what we used to 124 00:07:12,199 –> 00:07:16,759 rent a cottage and on Sunday was my 125 00:07:16,759 –> 00:07:19,280 father used to come like Sunday, Saturday 126 00:07:19,280 –> 00:07:21,120 night to visit the family and 127 00:07:21,120 –> 00:07:23,280 in Monday morning he used to go by train back. 128 00:07:23,280 –> 00:07:28,680 And in the last year, my 129 00:07:28,680 –> 00:07:31,039 parents bought me a new 130 00:07:31,039 –> 00:07:33,840 bicycle, English-made bicycle 131 00:07:33,840 –> 00:07:36,599 and the last year of the war we actually 132 00:07:36,599 –> 00:07:38,440 stayed over there, we couldn’t get back, 133 00:07:38,440 –> 00:07:40,919 when the war broke out. I remember 134 00:07:40,919 –> 00:07:42,560 I was standing over there and seeing the 135 00:07:42,560 –> 00:07:45,159 Polish Army when they recede, 136 00:07:45,159 –> 00:07:46,960 they went back, they left Łódź and 137 00:07:46,960 –> 00:07:49,280 went back to Warsaw and I was standing 138 00:07:49,280 –> 00:07:51,120 with my bicycle and a Polish soldier 139 00:07:51,120 –> 00:07:53,639 came and took the bicycle away and just 140 00:07:53,639 –> 00:07:56,759 said what’s that, I couldn’t – but 141 00:07:56,759 –> 00:08:00,759 we knew that the war is going on 142 00:08:00,759 –> 00:08:03,960 and we had a very hard time to come back 143 00:08:03,960 –> 00:08:06,520 because there was no way we, at that time 144 00:08:06,520 –> 00:08:08,680 when you went you had a part of your 145 00:08:08,680 –> 00:08:10,639 furniture and special clothes you took 146 00:08:10,639 –> 00:08:13,039 to the summer, used to have a truck bring 147 00:08:13,039 –> 00:08:15,759 you back and forth, there was nobody to take us, we 148 00:08:15,759 –> 00:08:17,560 had everything to leave and the neighbor 149 00:08:17,560 –> 00:08:21,000 had a car, he took us and brought us home and 150 00:08:21,000 –> 00:08:24,080 my mother was very sick, she got 151 00:08:24,080 –> 00:08:27,199 dysentery from that time. 152 00:08:27,199 –> 00:08:29,599 Before we go forward, I’d like to just 153 00:08:29,599 –> 00:08:32,120 go back a little bit and ask a couple of 154 00:08:32,120 –> 00:08:35,599 questions. First, in in the years 155 00:08:35,599 –> 00:08:40,799 before the war what did being Jewish mean to you? 156 00:08:40,799 –> 00:08:45,880 Our town was a workers’ town, there was a 157 00:08:45,880 –> 00:08:48,040 very strong socialist movement. 158 00:08:48,040 –> 00:08:50,320 We knew that the Jews in Warsaw were very, you 159 00:08:50,320 –> 00:08:52,720 know treated very bad because the 160 00:08:52,720 –> 00:08:55,120 national organization were very 161 00:08:55,120 –> 00:08:57,560 anti-Semitic. We had also an anti-Semitic 162 00:08:57,560 –> 00:09:02,240 organization in Łódź, but they 163 00:09:02,240 –> 00:09:05,279 like I said the workers are 164 00:09:05,279 –> 00:09:08,040 very well organized and the workers many 165 00:09:08,040 –> 00:09:10,279 of the factories belonged to Jews and they 166 00:09:10,279 –> 00:09:12,240 were very well treated by the Jewish 167 00:09:12,240 –> 00:09:16,200 owners. Like we had over there 168 00:09:16,200 –> 00:09:20,680 Widzew Manufaktura, Mr. Max Kohn was the owner and 169 00:09:20,680 –> 00:09:22,800 the director was Rabinovich – David 170 00:09:22,800 –> 00:09:25,320 Rabinovich – and he lived in our, in the 171 00:09:25,320 –> 00:09:27,160 same house where we 172 00:09:27,160 –> 00:09:30,839 lived. And I remember the first time 173 00:09:30,839 –> 00:09:33,399 when the workers marched 174 00:09:33,399 –> 00:09:35,360 the police even stood inside the house 175 00:09:35,360 –> 00:09:37,560 and they didn’t trust them to show up. 176 00:09:37,560 –> 00:09:41,920 And actually I never experienced 177 00:09:41,920 –> 00:09:45,800 some personal anti-Semitism. 178 00:09:45,800 –> 00:09:49,480 In fact, I had neighbors, they 179 00:09:49,480 –> 00:09:51,240 had a big grocery story, and they had 180 00:09:51,240 –> 00:09:55,040 two sons and the two kids were my friends 181 00:09:55,040 –> 00:09:57,200 we used to go – across the home 182 00:09:57,200 –> 00:09:59,839 was a big park, and winter time 183 00:09:59,839 –> 00:10:02,760 we used to ride a sled – and I had a big 184 00:10:02,760 –> 00:10:05,480 Canadian sled it was a very 185 00:10:05,480 –> 00:10:08,079 special sled and they had a big 186 00:10:08,079 –> 00:10:10,120 dog and we all three used to go over 187 00:10:10,120 –> 00:10:11,800 there and the dog used to pull us with a 188 00:10:11,800 –> 00:10:14,399 sled, they had a big German Shepherd. 189 00:10:14,399 –> 00:10:17,160 But my mother was happy by having 190 00:10:17,160 –> 00:10:18,680 those friends because they all protected 191 00:10:18,680 –> 00:10:20,600 me from the other Polish kids 192 00:10:20,600 –> 00:10:22,320 nobody could touch me, those 193 00:10:22,320 –> 00:10:25,399 those boys used to protect and I was 194 00:10:25,399 –> 00:10:31,200 very welcome in their home – but 195 00:10:31,200 –> 00:10:34,040 personally, I didn’t have any trouble 196 00:10:34,040 –> 00:10:37,600 with anti-Semitism – my sister she 197 00:10:37,600 –> 00:10:40,279 belonged to the paramilitary organization 198 00:10:40,279 –> 00:10:42,279 with going to school, every kid 199 00:10:42,279 –> 00:10:44,399 like every kid in the high 200 00:10:44,399 –> 00:10:47,160 school had to – and I remember she used to 201 00:10:47,160 –> 00:10:49,519 come home, used to have the 202 00:10:49,519 –> 00:10:52,760 dark brown – brown shoes like khaki 203 00:10:52,760 –> 00:10:55,880 she even – got even a small 204 00:10:55,880 –> 00:10:58,639 medal for shooting a small medal 205 00:10:58,639 –> 00:11:01,800 but her name, I don’t know, was 206 00:11:01,800 –> 00:11:04,440 Marisha – in Polish they call it, outside 207 00:11:04,440 –> 00:11:08,279 Marisha Biezunska, that was an extreme Polish name 208 00:11:08,279 –> 00:11:10,480 Biezunski – it’s not a Jewish name, it’s an 209 00:11:10,480 –> 00:11:14,240 extreme Polish name and maybe she 210 00:11:14,240 –> 00:11:17,000 maybe she escaped over there 211 00:11:17,000 –> 00:11:19,320 in the organization and innuendos to being 212 00:11:19,320 –> 00:11:21,079 Jewish or anything, you 213 00:11:21,079 –> 00:11:23,680 know. But we know what’s happened to the 214 00:11:23,680 –> 00:11:26,240 Jews that in Poland at 215 00:11:26,240 –> 00:11:28,399 that time there was like in Krakow 216 00:11:28,399 –> 00:11:31,079 and Warsaw universities, the Jews were not allowed to sit 217 00:11:31,079 –> 00:11:32,279 there was a strike of the 218 00:11:32,279 –> 00:11:36,079 Polish students, even before the war that they 219 00:11:36,079 –> 00:11:37,320 didn’t want to sit with the Jewish 220 00:11:37,320 –> 00:11:38,880 students together they had to 221 00:11:38,880 –> 00:11:42,800 stand on the side. But like the Jews 222 00:11:42,800 –> 00:11:44,680 always find a way out they send the 223 00:11:44,680 –> 00:11:46,639 children to Germany to study 224 00:11:46,639 –> 00:11:50,680 like my sister had a boyfriend his 225 00:11:50,680 –> 00:11:53,399 name was Judenherz. I don’t know what 226 00:11:53,399 –> 00:11:56,040 was his first name, I can’t remember – but he was 227 00:11:56,040 –> 00:11:57,880 a textile engineer and he studied 228 00:11:57,880 –> 00:12:01,240 actually in Germany 229 00:12:02,079 –> 00:12:05,200 oh, I know Mr. Rabinovich, my neighbor, had a 230 00:12:05,200 –> 00:12:08,360 son studying in England – and 231 00:12:08,360 –> 00:12:10,040 before the war broke out he came to the 232 00:12:10,040 –> 00:12:12,360 store, my father, and he says Mr. Biezunski 233 00:12:12,360 –> 00:12:14,360 there will be no war, I just came from England 234 00:12:14,360 –> 00:12:17,399 and I heard Chamberlain talking 235 00:12:17,399 –> 00:12:20,000 and the day after, two days after, the 236 00:12:20,000 –> 00:12:23,320 Germans attacked Poland. That actually I was 237 00:12:23,320 –> 00:12:27,399 never mistreated in a physical way but 238 00:12:27,399 –> 00:12:29,399 like you say as a Jew 239 00:12:29,399 –> 00:12:31,120 you had to stay out of trouble 240 00:12:31,120 –> 00:12:34,079 that was the perception what 241 00:12:34,079 –> 00:12:37,839 was what they call it in Hebrew they 242 00:12:37,839 –> 00:12:39,880 call it a Galut living in a 243 00:12:39,880 –> 00:12:42,839 strange country – my family lived 244 00:12:42,839 –> 00:12:47,240 maybe for for 500, 600 years in Poland and 245 00:12:47,240 –> 00:12:49,839 they were invited by the Polish King 246 00:12:49,839 –> 00:12:52,720 Wladyslaw, I don’t remember his 247 00:12:52,720 –> 00:12:54,680 name, the history, where he invited the 248 00:12:54,680 –> 00:12:58,480 maybe 700 years back to develop 249 00:12:58,480 –> 00:12:59,959 the commerce 250 00:12:59,959 –> 00:13:01,959 but for some reason the 251 00:13:01,959 –> 00:13:05,120 Catholic Church has had a very 252 00:13:05,120 –> 00:13:08,000 big influence on the people and 253 00:13:08,000 –> 00:13:10,120 the perception even my two 254 00:13:10,120 –> 00:13:12,920 Polish friends that I had – this is very 255 00:13:12,920 –> 00:13:15,560 interesting – when it comes to Good Friday 256 00:13:15,560 –> 00:13:17,519 they used to say 257 00:13:17,519 –> 00:13:19,560 “you killed our God” and I 258 00:13:19,560 –> 00:13:21,079 didn’t know the first time I was a 259 00:13:21,079 –> 00:13:23,480 little – what do you mean – I asked 260 00:13:23,480 –> 00:13:27,040 my mother what is, which God I killed? 261 00:13:27,040 –> 00:13:28,399 and she explained. They said 262 00:13:28,399 –> 00:13:30,040 this to you? They said it to me, they didn’t 263 00:13:30,040 –> 00:13:31,720 even play a day with me but 264 00:13:31,720 –> 00:13:34,959 after days everything is because the 265 00:13:34,959 –> 00:13:37,480 Catholic Church they used to 266 00:13:37,480 –> 00:13:39,480 infame the name of the Jews in 267 00:13:39,480 –> 00:13:41,199 the small villages over there as a 268 00:13:41,199 –> 00:13:43,720 priest, he was a king. – when he 269 00:13:43,720 –> 00:13:46,160 said “the black cat is a Jew”, then the black cat 270 00:13:46,160 –> 00:13:48,680 is a Jew everything and you 271 00:13:48,680 –> 00:13:51,600 know for 2,000 years, the Jews were persecuted 272 00:13:51,600 –> 00:13:54,800 because of the notions that they killed Christ and 273 00:13:54,800 –> 00:13:56,519 then they used to call us “Christ killer”. 274 00:13:56,519 –> 00:13:58,639 As a young boy, how did you take 275 00:13:58,639 –> 00:14:00,880 that – that kind 276 00:14:00,880 –> 00:14:04,560 of statement? I tell you, I was – at first 277 00:14:04,560 –> 00:14:06,560 I was shocked, I didn’t understand that, I 278 00:14:06,560 –> 00:14:08,600 didn’t know there a story, but when my 279 00:14:08,600 –> 00:14:10,759 mother explained to me, she says 280 00:14:10,759 –> 00:14:12,480 they don’t know better you cannot 281 00:14:12,480 –> 00:14:14,880 blame them 282 00:14:14,880 –> 00:14:17,160 because that what they are taught 283 00:14:17,160 –> 00:14:20,040 they go to Sunday school and that is 284 00:14:20,040 –> 00:14:21,759 what the priests are teaching them, 285 00:14:21,759 –> 00:14:24,279 they keep the flame of 286 00:14:24,279 –> 00:14:27,079 hatred always burning. I wanted 287 00:14:27,079 –> 00:14:29,399 to know about your Jewish home life – did 288 00:14:29,399 –> 00:14:30,959 you go to the synagogue and did you 289 00:14:30,959 –> 00:14:35,000 celebrate? No, you see, 290 00:14:35,600 –> 00:14:40,320 we actually used to have Saturday, the 291 00:14:40,320 –> 00:14:42,920 store open, because we were not far 292 00:14:42,920 –> 00:14:46,199 across from the main station, 293 00:14:46,199 –> 00:14:49,000 railroad station, and all the peasants – not 294 00:14:49,000 –> 00:14:50,880 the poor peasant, but the rich peasant – used 295 00:14:50,880 –> 00:14:53,959 to come to to town for shopping 296 00:14:53,959 –> 00:14:56,519 Saturday and buy cosmetics, 297 00:14:56,519 –> 00:14:58,880 perfumes, things like that. 298 00:14:58,880 –> 00:15:00,920 And that was a very important day. 299 00:15:00,920 –> 00:15:02,639 You made on a Saturday, the 300 00:15:02,639 –> 00:15:05,040 income was much larger than during the 301 00:15:05,040 –> 00:15:08,279 week and for material purposes 302 00:15:08,279 –> 00:15:11,639 the door has to be open Saturday. But 303 00:15:11,639 –> 00:15:15,000 we observed Friday night. We used 304 00:15:15,000 –> 00:15:17,800 to have all the family, a really 305 00:15:17,800 –> 00:15:19,480 ritual Friday 306 00:15:19,480 –> 00:15:23,279 night evening meal with fish and meat and 307 00:15:23,279 –> 00:15:26,320 cake and even coffee. I remember 308 00:15:26,320 –> 00:15:28,120 coming home from school I used to get a 309 00:15:28,120 –> 00:15:30,480 light meal like a hamburger 310 00:15:30,480 –> 00:15:35,680 because in the evening we had a big meal. 311 00:15:35,720 –> 00:15:38,120 Did you go to Hebrew school? 312 00:15:38,120 –> 00:15:42,199 Yes, we went to Hebrew school. 313 00:15:42,199 –> 00:15:44,319 I went to a private Jewish, private 314 00:15:44,319 –> 00:15:46,880 school – always Hebrew was one of those – 315 00:15:46,880 –> 00:15:50,240 it’s amazing that I was always so 316 00:15:50,240 –> 00:15:52,759 bad in Hebrew, then I came to Israel 317 00:15:52,759 –> 00:15:56,079 and I speak Hebrew. Now I always – I can 318 00:15:56,079 –> 00:15:57,680 remember that the teacher said he’s a 319 00:15:57,680 –> 00:16:00,800 terrific student, only the Hebrew he 320 00:16:00,800 –> 00:16:03,959 hasn’t got it. For some reason, I couldn’t 321 00:16:03,959 –> 00:16:07,360 catch on with the Hebrew. But I did very 322 00:16:07,360 –> 00:16:08,519 well in Israel. 323 00:16:08,519 –> 00:16:11,639 And we used to go to the holidays 324 00:16:11,639 –> 00:16:13,440 I cannot say that my father used to go 325 00:16:13,440 –> 00:16:15,920 every Friday. No, we used to go on 326 00:16:15,920 –> 00:16:19,959 big holidays like Passover, Yom Kippur, 327 00:16:19,959 –> 00:16:22,759 then two days of the new year – 328 00:16:22,759 –> 00:16:25,839 the main holidays used to be observed. 329 00:16:25,839 –> 00:16:29,639 When did you notice that 330 00:16:29,639 –> 00:16:32,079 your environment began to change 331 00:16:32,079 –> 00:16:34,480 because of the war? At this time, when you 332 00:16:34,480 –> 00:16:36,560 went on a summer retreat? 333 00:16:36,561 –> 00:16:40,600 We came to the summer retreat, the man brought 334 00:16:40,600 –> 00:16:43,240 us back and my mom’s mother had to go 335 00:16:43,240 –> 00:16:46,600 to the hospital. And the hospital at that time 336 00:16:46,600 –> 00:16:49,360 was very crowded because already the 337 00:16:49,360 –> 00:16:52,560 war was in progress. But Łódź was bombed 338 00:16:52,560 –> 00:16:56,399 and was not damaged because 339 00:16:56,399 –> 00:17:02,000 from what I understand, the commander – 340 00:17:02,000 –> 00:17:05,240 was named Frank – and Frank is a Volksdeutsch 341 00:17:05,240 –> 00:17:08,679 they call it Volksdeutsch, it was a Polish-German. 342 00:17:08,679 –> 00:17:12,000 For some reason, they bombed a little 343 00:17:12,000 –> 00:17:14,480 but they shelled it actually and 344 00:17:14,480 –> 00:17:17,079 after six days the German were in Łódź – that’s it. 345 00:17:17,079 –> 00:17:19,520 You’re speaking of Hans Frank the 346 00:17:19,520 –> 00:17:21,839 governor general? No, no, no – 347 00:17:21,839 –> 00:17:23,839 another Frank. 348 00:17:23,839 –> 00:17:27,520 And the war was – that’s it. 349 00:17:27,520 –> 00:17:31,440 In six days, Warsaw was encircled 350 00:17:31,440 –> 00:17:33,960 and then Łódź was. They were 351 00:17:33,960 –> 00:17:37,120 marching, I remember they put a big 352 00:17:37,120 –> 00:17:41,480 proclamation: the whole population of Łódź has to come 353 00:17:41,480 –> 00:17:43,880 out to the main street Piotrkowska 354 00:17:43,880 –> 00:17:51,039 … from the west, and we have 355 00:17:51,039 –> 00:17:54,120 to show appreciation to the 356 00:17:54,120 –> 00:17:57,320 victorious German army. And believe it or not 357 00:17:57,320 –> 00:17:59,679 everybody went, I went myself, and I 358 00:17:59,679 –> 00:18:03,080 was very impressed at that time. Were the proclamations 359 00:18:03,080 –> 00:18:05,480 in Polish? No, in German, in Polish and in German. 360 00:18:05,480 –> 00:18:07,919 Yes, and there was a main city hall and 361 00:18:07,919 –> 00:18:10,080 they put on city hall a flag out 362 00:18:10,080 –> 00:18:12,919 from the fifth story, the big 363 00:18:12,919 –> 00:18:14,960 swastika, from all the front. 364 00:18:14,960 –> 00:18:18,000 And as a kid I went also 365 00:18:18,000 –> 00:18:21,159 and I was very, very – they 366 00:18:21,159 –> 00:18:22,880 came with a tremendous might, everything. 367 00:18:22,880 –> 00:18:24,520 Like the Polish soldier used to march – they 368 00:18:24,520 –> 00:18:26,400 came all motorized with cars, 369 00:18:26,400 –> 00:18:28,320 with trucks, with tanks, even the 370 00:18:28,320 –> 00:18:30,360 horses used to be on track they have 371 00:18:30,360 –> 00:18:32,080 some kind cavalry. 372 00:18:32,080 –> 00:18:36,480 And the hotel next to us, Polonia 373 00:18:36,480 –> 00:18:38,919 they throw all the people out – 374 00:18:38,919 –> 00:18:44,919 it was all in Jewish ownership, in fact, and they put 375 00:18:44,919 –> 00:18:48,280 officers over there, the German officers in there 376 00:18:48,280 –> 00:18:50,039 and you head over there, right away, 377 00:18:50,039 –> 00:18:53,000 a German soldier standing guard. 378 00:18:53,000 –> 00:18:55,600 You went by, you had to bow and take your 379 00:18:55,600 –> 00:18:58,799 hat off – this was a – then if a German 380 00:18:58,799 –> 00:19:01,120 soldier walked by you had to go off the 381 00:19:01,120 –> 00:19:04,480 street and let him pass. 382 00:19:04,480 –> 00:19:07,480 And you have to greet him, over there people 383 00:19:07,480 –> 00:19:08,960 wear hats, you have to take your hat off. 384 00:19:08,960 –> 00:19:11,720 How soon after the invasion did this happen? 385 00:19:11,720 –> 00:19:18,080 This was in the first month. This was September, 386 00:19:18,080 –> 00:19:23,720 October, November, December, was the army, in fact, 387 00:19:23,720 –> 00:19:27,120 in charge of Łódź. They didn’t 388 00:19:27,120 –> 00:19:29,960 actually discriminate against the Jews 389 00:19:29,960 –> 00:19:34,320 everybody was included – the Poles and the 390 00:19:34,320 –> 00:19:37,559 Jews and in fact we had a booming 391 00:19:37,559 –> 00:19:40,559 business going we had soaps 392 00:19:40,559 –> 00:19:43,559 in a big storage over there 393 00:19:43,559 –> 00:19:46,080 the Palmolive, Colgate, and others. 394 00:19:46,080 –> 00:19:48,919 We had all the best cosmetics in there 395 00:19:48,919 –> 00:19:51,000 from all the international made – 396 00:19:51,000 –> 00:19:53,280 from Germany, from England, from 397 00:19:53,280 –> 00:19:55,799 America and we had soaps and the Germans 398 00:19:55,799 –> 00:19:57,840 were crazy after soaps. They didn’t, for 399 00:19:57,840 –> 00:19:59,480 some reason, didn’t have enough soap. 400 00:19:59,480 –> 00:20:02,039 We had soap where the fragrance was 401 00:20:02,039 –> 00:20:03,720 gone, but the soap was good. 402 00:20:03,720 –> 00:20:05,520 Normally, you cannot sell it, but they used 403 00:20:05,520 –> 00:20:08,200 to buy cartons of it to send home 404 00:20:08,200 –> 00:20:10,280 they didn’t have any soap over there. 405 00:20:10,280 –> 00:20:12,679 We had for women milk 406 00:20:12,679 –> 00:20:15,400 like for skin, they used to 407 00:20:15,400 –> 00:20:16,960 buy everything. They used to pay – they had 408 00:20:16,960 –> 00:20:18,960 a tremendous amount of money and they 409 00:20:18,960 –> 00:20:21,640 paid everything. It was interesting at 410 00:20:21,640 –> 00:20:24,559 that time the girl we had to work 411 00:20:24,559 –> 00:20:28,080 with us, our maid, left for the village and 412 00:20:28,080 –> 00:20:30,039 also the girl my father employed in 413 00:20:30,039 –> 00:20:33,799 the store, she left, and we had a girl from 414 00:20:33,799 –> 00:20:35,760 a neighbor, she was a Jewish girl, but she 415 00:20:35,760 –> 00:20:38,520 looked more German than 416 00:20:38,520 –> 00:20:41,200 the Germans. Long blonde hair, 417 00:20:41,200 –> 00:20:44,799 and name was Eva. And she helped out 418 00:20:44,799 –> 00:20:46,480 my father and the Germans used to come 419 00:20:46,480 –> 00:20:49,520 in and they didn’t even realize because 420 00:20:49,520 –> 00:20:52,120 my father spoke perfect German 421 00:20:52,120 –> 00:20:56,000 my mother spoke perfect German and 422 00:20:56,000 –> 00:20:58,640 he said “you are Jews?” This is 423 00:20:58,640 –> 00:21:00,000 impossible – because they know the Jews 424 00:21:00,000 –> 00:21:02,120 from Der Stürmer with the nose 425 00:21:02,120 –> 00:21:04,320 and my father and my family we all had 426 00:21:04,320 –> 00:21:06,840 light eyes, straight nose 427 00:21:06,840 –> 00:21:09,280 narrow lips, and they only know the 428 00:21:09,280 –> 00:21:11,360 German – the Jews from some German’s 429 00:21:11,360 –> 00:21:15,159 Der Stürmer, it was the Stürmer – caricature 430 00:21:15,159 –> 00:21:16,880 And they didn’t believe – people like here, 431 00:21:16,880 –> 00:21:19,559 speak German, was so nice. 432 00:21:19,559 –> 00:21:21,520 And the officers used to 433 00:21:21,520 –> 00:21:23,279 sit over there we had like a small corner, you 434 00:21:23,279 –> 00:21:25,880 couldn’t get rid of them. They bought everything. 435 00:21:25,880 –> 00:21:32,040 But after, the Partei people came in – the 436 00:21:32,041 –> 00:21:38,640 Gestapo, the SS, and you had to put 437 00:21:38,640 –> 00:21:44,559 “Jewish store” in the window. And they used to take 438 00:21:44,559 –> 00:21:46,279 the Jews, pick them up in the street, to 439 00:21:46,279 –> 00:21:50,360 work for the German government and for the 440 00:21:50,360 –> 00:21:53,159 military, and everything. And in fact, 441 00:21:53,159 –> 00:21:58,120 we had a the big house – my mother, 442 00:21:58,120 –> 00:21:59,799 my grandmother had her room and she 443 00:21:59,799 –> 00:22:04,200 died before the war and then the maid, 444 00:22:04,200 –> 00:22:06,480 the service maid, also had a room – she left 445 00:22:06,480 –> 00:22:09,559 and we were left with a big house 446 00:22:09,559 –> 00:22:12,760 and they put a German officer, we had 447 00:22:12,760 –> 00:22:15,159 to take in like a tenant. German officer, 448 00:22:15,159 –> 00:22:22,880 with his servant – was a soldier servant. 449 00:22:22,880 –> 00:22:27,279 But he was an old timer, he was like an 450 00:22:27,279 –> 00:22:33,760 … administrative officer, not a fighting man 451 00:22:33,760 –> 00:22:37,120 In some way, he was very 452 00:22:37,120 –> 00:22:39,080 helpful because the Germans used to 453 00:22:39,080 –> 00:22:41,039 get drunk and used to look for 454 00:22:41,039 –> 00:22:43,080 women, for Jewish women, and raped them. 455 00:22:43,080 –> 00:22:45,480 And he said “your daughter 456 00:22:45,480 –> 00:22:47,279 might be in danger” but then he said 457 00:22:47,279 –> 00:22:48,960 “any knock on the door, you let me know” 458 00:22:48,960 –> 00:22:51,600 “don’t open it, I will get rid of them” 459 00:22:51,600 –> 00:22:56,520 … and sometimes he used to bring 460 00:22:56,520 –> 00:22:58,799 a loaf of bread because 461 00:22:58,799 –> 00:23:02,000 everything got a little tight and scarce 462 00:23:02,000 –> 00:23:04,600 But one day, for some reason, I 463 00:23:04,600 –> 00:23:06,200 don’t know – because my father is a 464 00:23:06,200 –> 00:23:08,039 pharmacist, he was an officer in the 465 00:23:08,039 –> 00:23:12,320 Polish Reserve, but in 1939 they 466 00:23:12,320 –> 00:23:13,679 didn’t call him to the 467 00:23:13,679 –> 00:23:16,400 army. But the there was German 468 00:23:16,400 –> 00:23:18,559 propaganda, they said 469 00:23:18,559 –> 00:23:20,640 everybody should go and and fight for 470 00:23:20,640 –> 00:23:23,159 Warsaw and a thousand people went 471 00:23:23,159 –> 00:23:25,279 for Warsaw marching, to help, 472 00:23:25,279 –> 00:23:27,880 to protect Warsaw. And they came with 473 00:23:27,880 –> 00:23:30,440 with planes and shot and 474 00:23:30,440 –> 00:23:32,440 massacred the people on the roads – all was 475 00:23:32,440 –> 00:23:34,360 blocked, the Polish Army couldn’t 476 00:23:34,360 –> 00:23:37,480 move, it almost like a some kind of plan 477 00:23:37,480 –> 00:23:40,640 to block the road. And my father 478 00:23:40,640 –> 00:23:43,799 he saw many men left and my father saw 479 00:23:43,799 –> 00:23:47,080 that it’s no business I never 480 00:23:47,080 –> 00:23:48,840 get a life … he was an old 481 00:23:48,840 –> 00:23:52,120 soldier, he came back. Was this the first 482 00:23:52,120 –> 00:23:56,600 real atrocity you saw taking place 483 00:23:56,600 –> 00:24:00,200 that involved mass killing. 484 00:24:00,200 –> 00:24:03,200 Yeah, I didn’t see it, I was home 485 00:24:03,200 –> 00:24:05,360 with my mother and my sister 486 00:24:05,360 –> 00:24:07,440 but he came and he says this is a provocation 487 00:24:07,440 –> 00:24:11,120 because the people … the thousands of people were going 488 00:24:11,120 –> 00:24:12,960 to Warsaw, they blocked the Polish army 489 00:24:12,960 –> 00:24:15,320 from reaching Warsaw and the Germans 490 00:24:15,320 –> 00:24:17,960 came with those Stuka planes 491 00:24:17,960 –> 00:24:20,760 and they just massacred them with machine 492 00:24:20,760 –> 00:24:24,200 gun fire – and he said 493 00:24:24,200 –> 00:24:25,960 after the first, second attack, he said 494 00:24:25,960 –> 00:24:28,600 there’s no way I’m going to do that. I’m 495 00:24:28,600 –> 00:24:31,200 going back to my family. What’s happened happened. 496 00:24:31,200 –> 00:24:34,679 We had a neighbor with a son and he 497 00:24:34,679 –> 00:24:37,039 went over there and he came back after 498 00:24:37,039 –> 00:24:42,840 the war, but they also didn’t survive – I don’t know. 499 00:24:42,840 –> 00:24:45,440 But after that, the worst thing that happened 500 00:24:45,440 –> 00:24:49,240 there was in January, I remember 501 00:24:49,240 –> 00:24:51,240 it was in January 502 00:24:51,240 –> 00:24:54,480 we had some prominent Jewish 503 00:24:54,480 –> 00:24:57,240 neighbors I told you – one of 504 00:24:57,240 –> 00:24:59,880 the neighbors there, Rabinovich, he had a car 505 00:24:59,880 –> 00:25:01,880 in Poland with a chauffeur – in 506 00:25:01,880 –> 00:25:04,960 Poland at that time, car with a chauffeur – 507 00:25:04,960 –> 00:25:07,039 you have to be very prominent – he 508 00:25:07,039 –> 00:25:09,760 took his wife with the chauffeur and he has a 509 00:25:09,760 –> 00:25:11,880 daughter, and two sons were in England at 510 00:25:11,880 –> 00:25:15,559 that time studying, and he went to Latvia, 511 00:25:15,559 –> 00:25:18,120 … and from that he went to 512 00:25:18,120 –> 00:25:21,240 I don’t know where, but he lived in 513 00:25:21,240 –> 00:25:26,840 Mexico after the war and 514 00:25:26,840 –> 00:25:30,919 what the Jews lost in Łódź 515 00:25:30,919 –> 00:25:33,200 you cannot even imagine – the 516 00:25:33,200 –> 00:25:35,559 factory, Max Kohn also I think was in 517 00:25:35,559 –> 00:25:37,840 Mexico, left for Mexico, but those 518 00:25:37,840 –> 00:25:39,320 people at that time were 519 00:25:39,320 –> 00:25:41,720 multi-millionaires. They had 10 thousands 520 00:25:41,720 –> 00:25:43,240 of people working for them 521 00:25:43,240 –> 00:25:45,760 in the textile. There was a family 522 00:25:45,760 –> 00:25:48,440 Poznański – they had like a 523 00:25:48,440 –> 00:25:50,159 castle, villa in the middle of Łódź 524 00:25:50,159 –> 00:25:52,720 surrounded by a big fence. 525 00:25:52,720 –> 00:25:55,720 They used to be customers of ours, 526 00:25:55,720 –> 00:25:58,760 by telephone, I used to deliver 527 00:25:58,760 –> 00:26:01,080 and we went to the Poznańskis and I used to go 528 00:26:01,080 –> 00:26:02,840 to deliver, I only just wanted to go 529 00:26:02,840 –> 00:26:05,000 in and see the riches of of the 530 00:26:05,000 –> 00:26:07,120 of those people, how they live, and they give 531 00:26:07,120 –> 00:26:09,559 you a good tip too. Now, we had 532 00:26:09,559 –> 00:26:10,960 the boy, Polish boy, used to 533 00:26:10,960 –> 00:26:13,799 deliver the packages, but over there I 534 00:26:13,799 –> 00:26:15,640 used to go because I wanted to 535 00:26:15,640 –> 00:26:23,399 see … many of them – and one day – we had 536 00:26:23,399 –> 00:26:24,960 many officees over there in the house and 537 00:26:24,960 –> 00:26:26,679 they never bothered my father because 538 00:26:26,679 –> 00:26:28,720 they knew there was a store and we had 539 00:26:28,720 –> 00:26:31,399 many German officers work, live 540 00:26:31,399 –> 00:26:35,399 each of the Jewish families 541 00:26:35,399 –> 00:26:37,840 they had so much room they had to take in. 542 00:26:37,840 –> 00:26:41,960 And we had like an inside yard, 543 00:26:41,960 –> 00:26:43,200 the whole inside yard was 544 00:26:43,200 –> 00:26:45,520 filled with German cars. We had a 545 00:26:45,520 –> 00:26:47,520 porter, a man who used to be in 546 00:26:47,520 –> 00:26:53,480 charge of their home, the yard, 547 00:26:53,480 –> 00:26:56,000 and everything. But they never bother my 548 00:26:56,000 –> 00:26:57,440 father because they knew him – 549 00:26:57,440 –> 00:26:59,000 sometimes you have to push the car to start, 550 00:26:59,000 –> 00:27:00,840 they used to pick up people from the 551 00:27:00,840 –> 00:27:03,520 street. But one day the Gestapo came and 552 00:27:03,520 –> 00:27:05,320 picked him up. It was in January. 553 00:27:05,320 –> 00:27:08,399 And they picked up 360 more 554 00:27:08,399 –> 00:27:10,960 Jewish people I don’t know … more than 300. 555 00:27:10,960 –> 00:27:13,840 And they took him over there, we 556 00:27:13,840 –> 00:27:16,320 used to have an electric tram station, you 557 00:27:16,320 –> 00:27:18,320 used to have to take a tram 558 00:27:18,320 –> 00:27:21,039 in Łódź. Trolley car. Yeah, trolley car. 559 00:27:21,039 –> 00:27:23,880 And – they shot him. 560 00:27:23,880 –> 00:27:27,600 Just shot them all to death. 561 00:27:27,600 –> 00:27:29,840 And the irony was that they 562 00:27:29,840 –> 00:27:33,080 contacted the family, 563 00:27:33,080 –> 00:27:36,000 and said to pick up the body. 564 00:27:36,000 –> 00:27:38,840 And my mother, my sister she was 18 565 00:27:38,840 –> 00:27:40,399 years old, she was afraid, they were 566 00:27:40,399 –> 00:27:43,399 two women. And I had the 567 00:27:43,399 –> 00:27:46,880 Canadian sled, the big sled, and I 568 00:27:46,880 –> 00:27:49,120 took another kid and we went over there 569 00:27:49,120 –> 00:27:52,919 and we took the body and covered it with … 570 00:27:52,919 –> 00:27:55,399 I don’t remember what was it and we 571 00:27:55,399 –> 00:27:58,720 schlepped all the way to the Jewish cemetery 572 00:27:58,720 –> 00:28:00,600 to get buried over there, all the bodies. 573 00:28:00,600 –> 00:28:05,200 How old were you? I was at that time 574 00:28:05,200 –> 00:28:08,159 almost 13 years old. 575 00:28:08,159 –> 00:28:11,159 That was a very tragic experience 576 00:28:11,159 –> 00:28:16,080 and it shattered our lives 577 00:28:18,080 –> 00:28:21,399 and luckily my mother was a 578 00:28:21,399 –> 00:28:24,120 very strong woman, a very 579 00:28:24,120 –> 00:28:28,799 business woman, and she 580 00:28:28,799 –> 00:28:34,760 said she took all the means to cancel, 581 00:28:34,760 –> 00:28:36,799 to close the store, to sell everything she 582 00:28:36,799 –> 00:28:41,000 knows. And in fact, in May, we got the 583 00:28:41,000 –> 00:28:44,159 order that we have to move to the Jewish 584 00:28:44,159 –> 00:28:46,760 quarter, the ghetto – it was all part of the 585 00:28:46,760 –> 00:28:51,279 Jewish quarters, the first time I came face-to-face 586 00:28:51,279 –> 00:28:53,320 with the Jewish proletariat, the Jewish 587 00:28:53,320 –> 00:28:55,080 working people. I never met people working 588 00:28:55,080 –> 00:28:57,039 in the factory Jews, but over there you had 589 00:28:57,039 –> 00:28:59,720 the part where Jewish workers used to 590 00:28:59,720 –> 00:29:01,799 have small factories, home factories 591 00:29:01,799 –> 00:29:05,200 to work in the home. 592 00:29:05,200 –> 00:29:08,000 And we rent a room … Jewish family 593 00:29:08,000 –> 00:29:11,279 and we only were allowed to 594 00:29:11,279 –> 00:29:14,240 take some bedding and some pots 595 00:29:14,240 –> 00:29:16,760 and everything has to be left 596 00:29:16,760 –> 00:29:20,279 and we just had to move in the ghetto, and we 597 00:29:20,279 –> 00:29:23,960 had over there a room in a family and we lived 598 00:29:23,960 –> 00:29:27,039 for six, seven months. After, they enlarged 599 00:29:27,039 –> 00:29:28,760 the ghetto they took 600 00:29:28,760 –> 00:29:31,600 a part of the Polish part of 601 00:29:31,600 –> 00:29:37,399 Łódź … they moved the Poles out and moved the Jews 602 00:29:37,399 –> 00:29:40,120 in then we get a house maybe four 603 00:29:40,120 –> 00:29:42,559 four rooms – a house with four rooms and 604 00:29:42,559 –> 00:29:45,200 each room was actually a living quarter 605 00:29:45,200 –> 00:29:47,720 everything was in their room, there was a pot and 606 00:29:47,720 –> 00:29:49,919 a stove in the middle and that’s 607 00:29:49,919 –> 00:29:52,559 it. That’s like the people live, with an out 608 00:29:52,559 –> 00:29:55,559 house outside, from brick, was lucky was 609 00:29:55,559 –> 00:29:57,720 from brick because the first winter we 610 00:29:57,720 –> 00:29:59,720 have nothing for indoor heat and all 611 00:29:59,720 –> 00:30:01,799 the fences between the houses were gone 612 00:30:01,799 –> 00:30:07,320 even the wooden door from the out house was stolen 613 00:30:07,320 –> 00:30:08,919 and if you had to go middle of the 614 00:30:08,919 –> 00:30:12,200 night you had to take something with you to cover it. 615 00:30:12,200 –> 00:30:14,440 Was it one family to a room or was it more than 616 00:30:14,440 –> 00:30:15,960 one family? No, no it was one family but 617 00:30:15,960 –> 00:30:18,000 that was – there was four families, four 618 00:30:18,000 –> 00:30:19,600 rooms. The whole house was four rooms, but 619 00:30:19,600 –> 00:30:22,240 separated – each one was made. 620 00:30:22,240 –> 00:30:25,919 The Polish family, they were with one big room 621 00:30:25,919 –> 00:30:28,240 in the winter time 622 00:30:28,240 –> 00:30:30,240 there was not enough to heat 623 00:30:30,240 –> 00:30:31,799 and I remember I used to read next to 624 00:30:31,799 –> 00:30:33,880 the stove, keep to the pipe, and read 625 00:30:33,880 –> 00:30:36,559 the book, it was very cold. But luckily we 626 00:30:36,559 –> 00:30:38,120 had good beddings with us 627 00:30:38,120 –> 00:30:41,000 with down, good stuff, and keep 628 00:30:41,000 –> 00:30:45,039 us warm and in fact in winter all walls 629 00:30:45,039 –> 00:30:47,760 from facing the window was all 630 00:30:47,760 –> 00:30:50,360 like was snow, it was ice 631 00:30:50,360 –> 00:30:52,559 because from the cooking there was 632 00:30:52,559 –> 00:30:55,240 frozen. Did you have electricity? 633 00:30:55,240 –> 00:30:58,799 We had electricity, only one bulb. 634 00:30:58,799 –> 00:31:01,760 Did you have other relatives? 635 00:31:01,760 –> 00:31:04,840 Oh yes, I have, yes I have my 636 00:31:04,840 –> 00:31:10,000 cousin, he was a second cousin, lived 637 00:31:10,000 –> 00:31:16,600 across the street. And we had to start to work. 638 00:31:16,600 –> 00:31:22,360 I start to work and know the machines trade, I had 639 00:31:22,360 –> 00:31:24,679 to go to school, we went a little to give 640 00:31:24,679 –> 00:31:26,639 us a little schooling and a little 641 00:31:26,639 –> 00:31:28,639 working in the beginning 642 00:31:28,639 –> 00:31:31,960 because we had to work to get 643 00:31:31,960 –> 00:31:34,480 support and get food – we had to 644 00:31:34,480 –> 00:31:35,480 work for the Germans. 645 00:31:35,480 –> 00:31:38,240 My mother used to start working 646 00:31:38,240 –> 00:31:41,320 making those big from straw shoes from 647 00:31:41,320 –> 00:31:43,360 the Germans in Russia 648 00:31:43,360 –> 00:31:45,000 standing guard, they used to have on the 649 00:31:45,000 –> 00:31:46,159 shoes the straw. 650 00:31:46,159 –> 00:31:50,440 My sister worked as secretary 651 00:31:50,440 –> 00:31:53,320 in the tailor department who used to make 652 00:31:53,320 –> 00:31:55,720 clothes for the German uniforms. In the 653 00:31:55,720 –> 00:31:58,120 ghetto, they said you can come in naked 654 00:31:58,120 –> 00:32:00,880 and come out dressed from head, 655 00:32:00,880 –> 00:32:04,279 everything, head – the hat and shoes and 656 00:32:04,279 –> 00:32:06,000 everything was done over there 657 00:32:06,000 –> 00:32:09,279 there was everything – used to be 100,000 Jews 658 00:32:09,279 –> 00:32:12,760 in the ghetto when I went. When the ghetto 659 00:32:12,760 –> 00:32:15,679 was liquidated, there was only 20,000 left 660 00:32:15,679 –> 00:32:17,880 people who were actually in Łódź. There 661 00:32:17,880 –> 00:32:21,279 was 80,000 in September 1944, but the 662 00:32:21,279 –> 00:32:24,120 other thousands came from Germany, from 663 00:32:24,120 –> 00:32:26,200 Czechoslovakia, from other small towns, they 664 00:32:26,200 –> 00:32:28,679 used to bring in. But in the four years 665 00:32:28,679 –> 00:32:32,679 actually 80,000 Jews, originally from Łódź 666 00:32:32,679 –> 00:32:35,360 Jews, died from starvation, from 667 00:32:35,360 –> 00:32:38,720 hunger, from when they took them out 668 00:32:38,720 –> 00:32:42,479 for selection, took him out to death 669 00:32:42,480 –> 00:32:45,159 or send him to work another place. 670 00:32:45,159 –> 00:32:49,240 And in the beginning, 671 00:32:49,240 –> 00:32:51,679 like every good Jewish family we had 672 00:32:51,679 –> 00:32:54,159 little gold pieces, Russian gold 673 00:32:54,159 –> 00:32:57,159 pieces, and safe over the bad 674 00:32:57,159 –> 00:33:00,480 times and then we had a Polish 675 00:33:00,480 –> 00:33:05,639 family what before the war the man, the 676 00:33:05,639 –> 00:33:08,120 woman, used to make a wash for us. 677 00:33:08,120 –> 00:33:10,080 At that time you didn’t send it out to wash 678 00:33:10,080 –> 00:33:14,320 like Chinese laundry. You had to upstairs on 679 00:33:14,320 –> 00:33:16,639 top, you have this big tub, and used 680 00:33:16,639 –> 00:33:19,679 to come a woman every month, every three 681 00:33:19,679 –> 00:33:21,279 months, I don’t know and she used to wash 682 00:33:21,279 –> 00:33:23,600 the wash and you have this partition 683 00:33:23,600 –> 00:33:25,120 over there where you hang it to dry it 684 00:33:25,120 –> 00:33:28,080 out. And the same thing was – 685 00:33:28,080 –> 00:33:31,080 for heating we used to use coal, and 686 00:33:31,080 –> 00:33:33,279 the coal was – there used to come a truck and put 687 00:33:33,279 –> 00:33:35,440 the chute down into the cellar, but the 688 00:33:35,440 –> 00:33:38,000 coal has to be brought up the four floors 689 00:33:38,000 –> 00:33:42,279 to a special – like a “komora” they used to call it 690 00:33:42,279 –> 00:33:45,440 like a room where you hold your 691 00:33:45,440 –> 00:33:48,200 provisions – apples and coals – 692 00:33:48,200 –> 00:33:49,840 and her husband used to bring the 693 00:33:49,840 –> 00:33:52,799 coals up and also before 694 00:33:52,799 –> 00:33:55,480 Passover, we used to take all the 695 00:33:55,480 –> 00:33:57,919 carpets downstairs and 696 00:33:57,919 –> 00:33:59,799 beat them up, dust them out 697 00:33:59,799 –> 00:34:01,840 it’d be like work for us 698 00:34:01,840 –> 00:34:05,279 from time to time – and those people, 699 00:34:05,279 –> 00:34:08,399 I was a kid – in the Jewish cemetery over there – 700 00:34:08,399 –> 00:34:11,639 even though it was a ghetto, there was no guard over there 701 00:34:11,639 –> 00:34:13,399 and you could could sneak out to 702 00:34:13,399 –> 00:34:15,679 the Polish side – and we had – 703 00:34:15,679 –> 00:34:18,959 make up with him, and we gave him the gold 704 00:34:18,960 –> 00:34:20,679 and they gave us a little food. 705 00:34:20,679 –> 00:34:23,719 The first two years, we managed 706 00:34:23,719 –> 00:34:25,760 a little better than the average Jew. 707 00:34:25,760 –> 00:34:29,199 Because rations were very – you get 708 00:34:29,199 –> 00:34:36,240 a bread, a kilo – actually, you got 100 grams of bread a day. 709 00:34:37,839 –> 00:34:41,879 And a little brown sugar, little 710 00:34:41,879 –> 00:34:44,560 oil. The only thing, for some reason, you 711 00:34:44,560 –> 00:34:48,239 had – I don’t know why – was they called it a 712 00:34:48,239 –> 00:34:52,000 “zast coffee” – this was actually some kind 713 00:34:52,000 –> 00:34:54,480 of wheat that was burned and was 714 00:34:54,480 –> 00:34:56,839 roasted, and you cook it with water 715 00:34:56,839 –> 00:34:58,640 and you had some brown coffee. I don’t know – 716 00:34:58,640 –> 00:35:02,280 this was in supply – it was 717 00:35:02,280 –> 00:35:04,920 in any amount you wanted, you can buy it. 718 00:35:04,920 –> 00:35:07,960 If you didn’t have enough sugar, 719 00:35:07,960 –> 00:35:11,359 you had saccharine … 720 00:35:11,520 –> 00:35:16,839 In the ghetto, the famous supplement, 721 00:35:16,839 –> 00:35:18,599 if you were lucky, we had some 722 00:35:18,599 –> 00:35:19,960 connections with the kitchen, you had 723 00:35:19,960 –> 00:35:21,040 soup kitchens over there, like in the 724 00:35:21,041 –> 00:35:24,320 … in the factory where I worked, 725 00:35:24,320 –> 00:35:28,359 you get a soup – lunchtime 726 00:35:28,359 –> 00:35:30,040 But interesting – the soup was only a 727 00:35:30,040 –> 00:35:32,280 little water and four pieces of 728 00:35:32,280 –> 00:35:35,280 potatoes – and you always used to 729 00:35:35,280 –> 00:35:36,640 be amazed 730 00:35:36,640 –> 00:35:39,880 like, she picked up the shovel – 731 00:35:39,880 –> 00:35:41,760 it was a liter – she picked up 732 00:35:41,760 –> 00:35:43,440 and you said “oh so many potatoes I’m 733 00:35:43,440 –> 00:35:46,400 lucky!” She put it in – everybody got those four, 734 00:35:46,400 –> 00:35:48,880 three pieces – and she was an expert, the 735 00:35:48,880 –> 00:35:52,359 woman, she gave – how she did it? 736 00:35:52,359 –> 00:35:55,760 But the other supplement was, if we 737 00:35:55,760 –> 00:35:57,160 were lucky, you had somebody in the 738 00:35:57,160 –> 00:35:59,920 kitchen, they give you the potato peels 739 00:35:59,920 –> 00:36:01,720 and the potato peels were so thin – the 740 00:36:01,720 –> 00:36:03,359 people who peeled the potatoes were like an 741 00:36:03,359 –> 00:36:05,400 artist – you wouldn’t believe – but even you 742 00:36:05,400 –> 00:36:07,400 get a kilo or two of the potato peels, 743 00:36:07,400 –> 00:36:09,240 you put it through the grinding machine 744 00:36:09,240 –> 00:36:12,960 and you took the coffee, 745 00:36:12,960 –> 00:36:15,480 the wheat, the coffee, whatever you had, you 746 00:36:15,480 –> 00:36:17,960 cooked it, and you throw the water out 747 00:36:17,960 –> 00:36:20,160 because it was bitter and you took with 748 00:36:20,160 –> 00:36:22,599 the potato peels – you mixed together – you 749 00:36:22,599 –> 00:36:25,440 put a little oil, a little saccharine in it 750 00:36:25,440 –> 00:36:28,079 and you put a little 751 00:36:28,079 –> 00:36:32,040 flour, whatever you have, and you cooked it all 752 00:36:32,040 –> 00:36:34,040 night in another pot and in the 753 00:36:34,040 –> 00:36:37,400 morning, when it was cooled off, it was like a cake. 754 00:36:37,400 –> 00:36:40,640 That’s what you took as a supplement. 755 00:36:40,640 –> 00:36:43,839 Did it have any taste to it? 756 00:36:43,839 –> 00:36:46,400 Can’t imagine – no talk about taste. 757 00:36:46,400 –> 00:36:50,400 The ration was – then me and my mother – 758 00:36:50,400 –> 00:36:56,040 in 1943 especially – all the people – 759 00:36:56,040 –> 00:36:58,400 they got all … 760 00:36:58,400 –> 00:37:01,400 And they had some from the 761 00:37:01,400 –> 00:37:03,720 black market over there – they had some – 762 00:37:03,720 –> 00:37:06,480 they called it Vigantol, some kind of fish oil, I don’t 763 00:37:06,480 –> 00:37:08,359 know – it was very expensive to get … 764 00:37:13,880 –> 00:37:16,040 You have to have a little 765 00:37:16,040 –> 00:37:17,200 connection – if you have a little 766 00:37:17,200 –> 00:37:19,960 connection, like I had, somebody 767 00:37:19,960 –> 00:37:23,640 who works – he was a policeman in a 768 00:37:23,640 –> 00:37:25,560 bakery – you have special 769 00:37:25,560 –> 00:37:28,000 police – Sonderpolizei – who used to keep on 770 00:37:28,000 –> 00:37:32,160 the bakeries over there – not to steal – and 771 00:37:32,160 –> 00:37:34,040 they had a little garden and I used to 772 00:37:34,040 –> 00:37:36,359 go in the garden over there and help him. 773 00:37:36,359 –> 00:37:38,800 They give me some pieces of bread 774 00:37:38,800 –> 00:37:42,040 before I went to work. 775 00:37:42,040 –> 00:37:44,160 You have to have connection – after you used 776 00:37:44,160 –> 00:37:46,319 to get vegetables, sometimes you 777 00:37:46,319 –> 00:37:48,440 used to have potatoes or radish, but 778 00:37:48,440 –> 00:37:50,000 everything was frozen for some reason. 779 00:37:50,000 –> 00:37:51,500 Whatever was frozen – not good – 780 00:37:51,501 –> 00:37:52,990 they sent to the Jews in the ghetto. 781 00:37:53,000 –> 00:37:54,200 Was there anybody there 782 00:37:54,200 –> 00:37:56,200 who knew your father, who was able maybe 783 00:37:56,200 –> 00:37:58,720 to help you or anything like that? 784 00:37:58,720 –> 00:38:01,640 What do you mean my father? 785 00:38:01,640 –> 00:38:03,760 Who knew him when he was a druggist? 786 00:38:03,760 –> 00:38:06,359 Yes, that’s what I’m telling you – 787 00:38:06,359 –> 00:38:08,160 We had some customers, 788 00:38:08,160 –> 00:38:10,520 they were prominent before the war, 789 00:38:10,520 –> 00:38:12,839 they were also prominent in the ghetto. 790 00:38:12,839 –> 00:38:15,440 Because the people of 791 00:38:15,440 –> 00:38:18,599 cultivated, educated people. 792 00:38:18,599 –> 00:38:21,160 I remember one was named Sztewi – he helped my 793 00:38:21,160 –> 00:38:25,440 mother to get the work. 794 00:38:25,520 –> 00:38:28,880 The only thing – what you had to do 795 00:38:28,880 –> 00:38:32,119 was they pulled out all the bricks and 796 00:38:32,119 –> 00:38:33,839 you started your own garden, like in 797 00:38:33,839 –> 00:38:36,000 England, the Victory Gardens – you 798 00:38:36,000 –> 00:38:38,800 grow on your own vegetables. 799 00:38:38,800 –> 00:38:43,599 You grow anything, like radish, you had 800 00:38:43,599 –> 00:38:46,920 the radish has a big leaf – you eat 801 00:38:46,920 –> 00:38:48,880 the leaf too. You put it in water, you 802 00:38:48,880 –> 00:38:51,240 take the bitterness out, and you make 803 00:38:51,240 –> 00:38:53,480 like spinach – you wouldn’t believe. 804 00:38:53,480 –> 00:38:57,560 Coal – I remember I worked 805 00:38:57,560 –> 00:38:59,520 at that time, but I worked like a night 806 00:38:59,520 –> 00:39:02,480 shift, or second shift, we had over there 807 00:39:02,480 –> 00:39:03,880 before the war they used to take from 808 00:39:03,880 –> 00:39:06,119 the factories, it used to be fired – the ovens – 809 00:39:06,119 –> 00:39:08,040 used to be fired by coal. They used to collect all 810 00:39:08,040 –> 00:39:11,079 the residue and throw it over in the fields. 811 00:39:11,079 –> 00:39:12,880 It was in the ghetto – we used to go 812 00:39:12,880 –> 00:39:15,640 as kids over there and and dig and find 813 00:39:15,640 –> 00:39:18,839 pieces of coal and burn it. 814 00:39:18,839 –> 00:39:22,960 The ingenuity – it’s impossible to even imagine. 815 00:39:22,960 –> 00:39:26,160 You had to. You had to. But same thing, the 816 00:39:26,160 –> 00:39:28,959 big eaters, they starved – they died first. 817 00:39:28,960 –> 00:39:30,560 The strong, the big, 818 00:39:30,560 –> 00:39:32,920 the people – I was always – my 819 00:39:32,920 –> 00:39:34,839 mother always complained how such a bad 820 00:39:34,839 –> 00:39:37,040 eater I was – and I went for three 821 00:39:37,040 –> 00:39:39,880 months vacation – I gained 100 grams. 822 00:39:39,880 –> 00:39:43,680 I was always a skinny kid but I 823 00:39:43,680 –> 00:39:47,799 remember they said that the strong people 824 00:39:47,800 –> 00:39:51,560 in the Jewish population all died first because 825 00:39:51,560 –> 00:39:54,399 they just starved to death – there was no food. 826 00:39:54,400 –> 00:39:58,599 They gave me from time to time … 827 00:40:00,760 –> 00:40:03,560 How did your mother do? 828 00:40:03,560 –> 00:40:07,640 My mother – I told you – she worked and 829 00:40:07,640 –> 00:40:11,160 we came home – and we divide the 830 00:40:11,160 –> 00:40:15,000 food – and make sure that at the end of 831 00:40:15,000 –> 00:40:19,680 the week, the bread was gone. 832 00:40:19,960 –> 00:40:22,760 What can I tell you? 833 00:40:22,760 –> 00:40:27,640 We had a big mischief because they had 834 00:40:27,640 –> 00:40:30,990 the names of all the middle class and wealthy Jews – 835 00:40:30,991 –> 00:40:35,039 there was a Kripo – a Kriminalpolizei – in Łódź 836 00:40:35,040 –> 00:40:38,440 and the main honcho, his name was Suder. 837 00:40:38,440 –> 00:40:41,599 And he grew with Jews together – 838 00:40:41,599 –> 00:40:43,599 he spoke with Jews like a Jew – you wouldn’t 839 00:40:43,599 –> 00:40:45,240 even believe – he used to go in the ghetto 840 00:40:45,240 –> 00:40:49,760 and ask them in Jewish, the people, 841 00:40:49,760 –> 00:40:53,800 “When is Hitler going be dead?” 842 00:40:53,801 –> 00:40:56,960 “When do you think those goddamn Germans are going to lose the war?” 843 00:40:56,960 –> 00:40:58,680 Some people didn’t know, it might get 844 00:40:58,680 –> 00:41:02,160 them involved, they arrest them. 845 00:41:02,160 –> 00:41:05,440 And they arrested my mother too. 846 00:41:05,440 –> 00:41:08,119 And she said she was over there for 847 00:41:08,119 –> 00:41:10,800 three weeks, she came back a broken woman 848 00:41:10,800 –> 00:41:13,400 completely. Not only mentally, but 849 00:41:13,400 –> 00:41:15,319 physically, you wouldn’t recognize her. She lost 850 00:41:15,319 –> 00:41:18,160 a tremendous amount of weight – besides 851 00:41:18,160 –> 00:41:21,319 what she already was – and she said 852 00:41:21,319 –> 00:41:23,640 he came to her and he had a 853 00:41:23,640 –> 00:41:26,319 … 854 00:41:26,319 –> 00:41:28,060 Yes, and slapped her and beat her up, and said 855 00:41:28,061 –> 00:41:30,059 where do you have the “harter” and the “vaykhe” 856 00:41:30,060 –> 00:41:36,079 “Harter” was hard dollars, coin dollars, “vaykhe” is paper money. 857 00:41:36,079 –> 00:41:38,040 He knows all the Jewish expressions. 858 00:41:38,040 –> 00:41:40,760 “I know you have” and my mother 859 00:41:40,760 –> 00:41:41,839 said “I have nothing”. 860 00:41:41,839 –> 00:41:45,319 They came to my house, to our 861 00:41:45,319 –> 00:41:48,280 house, and they took my – 862 00:41:48,280 –> 00:41:50,920 called my sister out from where she 863 00:41:50,920 –> 00:41:52,520 was and and they looked the house and 864 00:41:52,520 –> 00:41:55,760 we had a scale home from brass – 865 00:41:55,760 –> 00:41:58,160 they took this – and and they found a golden 866 00:41:58,160 –> 00:42:00,800 ring, but it was missing – my sister had a ring 867 00:42:00,800 –> 00:42:03,079 with a ruby in it – and they found 868 00:42:03,079 –> 00:42:04,880 the ruby was misplaced some place and 869 00:42:04,880 –> 00:42:08,200 she didn’t know. And he said “where is 870 00:42:08,200 –> 00:42:10,920 the diamond?” – my mother says “no diamond, it was 871 00:42:10,920 –> 00:42:14,880 a cheap ruby” – luckily, they found it – otherwise 872 00:42:14,880 –> 00:42:18,440 you never know. But this was very, very and she 873 00:42:18,440 –> 00:42:20,800 never really recuperated after that. She was 874 00:42:20,800 –> 00:42:22,760 a long time, she couldn’t go to work, she 875 00:42:22,760 –> 00:42:27,920 had to stay in bed, and she became very bad. 876 00:42:27,920 –> 00:42:32,760 And then in 1942, there was a big “Gehsperre” they called it 877 00:42:32,760 –> 00:42:36,400 there was a big – they took the people, they 878 00:42:36,400 –> 00:42:39,920 closed up each part of the 879 00:42:39,920 –> 00:42:43,440 town, and they selected the people – 880 00:42:43,440 –> 00:42:47,720 who has to live and who has to go. 881 00:42:47,720 –> 00:42:51,480 I had an aunt and my uncle he 882 00:42:51,480 –> 00:42:54,680 was sent out before, years before, he was 883 00:42:54,680 –> 00:42:57,880 sent out for work, another camp, 884 00:42:57,880 –> 00:42:59,680 he never came back, but she stayed 885 00:42:59,680 –> 00:43:04,520 with a small child and the version, the rumor was – 886 00:43:04,520 –> 00:43:09,520 and I went over there to bring it over to us 887 00:43:09,520 –> 00:43:12,559 and she saw the Germans coming, she just 888 00:43:12,559 –> 00:43:15,880 jumped from – with the child – from 889 00:43:15,880 –> 00:43:18,240 I don’t know how many stories and 890 00:43:18,240 –> 00:43:20,079 she killed herself. 891 00:43:20,079 –> 00:43:23,480 They came to us too and my 892 00:43:23,480 –> 00:43:27,480 mother, my sister amazingly looked very 893 00:43:27,480 –> 00:43:29,599 well – she was a young girl, 18, 894 00:43:29,599 –> 00:43:32,280 19, 20 – she kept herself very 895 00:43:32,280 –> 00:43:34,240 good, even with that little food, what she had. 896 00:43:34,240 –> 00:43:37,160 And I and my sister we pass and my 897 00:43:37,160 –> 00:43:40,599 mother was arrested and she was – should 898 00:43:40,599 –> 00:43:45,280 be sent out. But I tell you the mensch, Sztewi, was 899 00:43:45,280 –> 00:43:49,040 our customer and a friend of ours. 900 00:43:49,040 –> 00:43:50,440 When you had somebody there, 901 00:43:50,440 –> 00:43:53,400 in the Polish, not German, 902 00:43:53,400 –> 00:43:57,839 but in the Polish, Jewish police, they had a 903 00:43:57,839 –> 00:43:59,400 place where they held the people 904 00:43:59,400 –> 00:44:02,559 and he came and for some reason they released my 905 00:44:02,559 –> 00:44:04,119 mother back – and she survived. 906 00:44:04,119 –> 00:44:06,240 That was a very bad time 907 00:44:06,240 –> 00:44:08,699 because we didn’t get nothing – no food, 908 00:44:08,700 –> 00:44:11,640 we shouldn’t even go out in the street. 909 00:44:11,640 –> 00:44:14,200 But what I had over there, the place 910 00:44:14,200 –> 00:44:16,960 where I lived, in Łódź, was the 911 00:44:16,960 –> 00:44:20,520 outskirts of the city and we have over 912 00:44:20,520 –> 00:44:23,720 there the ghetto administration, used to raise 913 00:44:23,720 –> 00:44:28,960 over there vegetables, potatoes, carrots. 914 00:44:28,960 –> 00:44:31,540 And I was standing in the window 915 00:44:31,541 –> 00:44:36,119 and people are taking from the fields and I 916 00:44:36,119 –> 00:44:40,640 went also, and I brought a little food in 917 00:44:40,640 –> 00:44:44,440 But this was the end – my mother, 918 00:44:44,440 –> 00:44:47,400 she was released and they came to 919 00:44:47,400 –> 00:44:49,800 our thing and we had everything prepared 920 00:44:49,800 –> 00:44:52,359 and we waited downstairs, we went in 921 00:44:52,359 –> 00:44:54,319 hiding over there in the fields. 922 00:44:54,319 –> 00:44:59,079 And we hope maybe we survive, 923 00:44:59,079 –> 00:45:02,200 we stay, but we were not arrested even by – 924 00:45:02,200 –> 00:45:05,720 we were arrested by the German gendarmerie, 925 00:45:05,720 –> 00:45:08,640 military personnel, took care 926 00:45:08,640 –> 00:45:11,800 besides the SS, and they took us out and 927 00:45:11,800 –> 00:45:14,480 he says – we’re asking “can we, go home?” 928 00:45:14,480 –> 00:45:17,880 And take our things, go home and we 929 00:45:17,880 –> 00:45:21,160 take our rucksack, the backpack 930 00:45:21,160 –> 00:45:22,520 and that’s it. 931 00:45:22,520 –> 00:45:26,539 We came, he said like Biebow before – 932 00:45:26,540 –> 00:45:30,199 you’re going to be – don’t worry 933 00:45:30,200 –> 00:45:32,400 the Russians were only – 934 00:45:32,400 –> 00:45:35,760 in September, I told you, in August 935 00:45:35,760 –> 00:45:38,400 1944, when the Russian used to stand 100 936 00:45:38,400 –> 00:45:40,839 kilometers from the Vistula and they stopped 937 00:45:40,839 –> 00:45:42,920 the offensive and he says “the Russians 938 00:45:42,920 –> 00:45:45,119 are going to kill you – you’ll work for 939 00:45:45,119 –> 00:45:47,079 the German government – and now we’re 940 00:45:47,079 –> 00:45:48,839 going to bring you back to Germany” he says 941 00:45:48,839 –> 00:45:50,960 “nothing is going to happen, we want to 942 00:45:50,960 –> 00:45:54,040 protect your life – take big pots” he says 943 00:45:54,040 –> 00:45:56,599 and “take only what you need” but 944 00:45:56,599 –> 00:45:58,839 “take big pots and we’ll go over there, we 945 00:45:58,839 –> 00:46:00,920 have plenty of food, now the good times 946 00:46:00,920 –> 00:46:03,520 are here” and that’s what he believes – he 947 00:46:03,520 –> 00:46:05,400 took us to the station, he gave us only 948 00:46:05,400 –> 00:46:08,880 a loaf bread and a little sugar 949 00:46:08,880 –> 00:46:10,760 and, like I told you, they give for some 950 00:46:10,760 –> 00:46:14,599 reason everybody a head of cabbage. 951 00:46:14,599 –> 00:46:17,119 People were so hungry, 952 00:46:17,119 –> 00:46:18,520 they ate everything, but they save like – 953 00:46:18,520 –> 00:46:20,079 hungry people always save the 954 00:46:20,079 –> 00:46:23,119 bread and eat the cabbage and 955 00:46:23,119 –> 00:46:25,559 they took us – 50, 40 people 956 00:46:25,559 –> 00:46:28,480 in those cattle, they called it 957 00:46:28,480 –> 00:46:31,280 the cattle train – closed, only the small windows 958 00:46:31,280 –> 00:46:35,519 with one pile over there – it was unbearable 959 00:46:35,520 –> 00:46:36,680 what was going on 960 00:46:36,680 –> 00:46:41,200 people, so stomach, used to throw out, 961 00:46:41,200 –> 00:46:43,920 so they grab the food, they try to eat, 962 00:46:43,920 –> 00:46:45,240 and everything. 963 00:46:45,240 –> 00:46:48,760 We lined up one day we came 964 00:46:48,760 –> 00:46:51,640 instead of jamming, and the good life, 965 00:46:51,640 –> 00:46:55,559 and the big pots, we wind up in Auschwitz-Birkenau. 966 00:46:55,559 –> 00:46:58,479 How long did you travel from Łódź to Auschwitz? 967 00:46:58,480 –> 00:47:00,960 I don’t know, maybe two, three days 968 00:47:00,960 –> 00:47:03,880 In total darkness with just that 969 00:47:03,880 –> 00:47:06,480 little bit of light? Yeah, from the small 970 00:47:06,480 –> 00:47:10,000 window and we had the light. 971 00:47:10,680 –> 00:47:15,440 Yeah. And that’s it, in Auschwitz, 972 00:47:15,440 –> 00:47:18,079 I came to Birkenau. 973 00:47:20,599 –> 00:47:23,680 There were many “Häftling” it was called, 974 00:47:23,680 –> 00:47:26,160 prisoners, they took us out and 975 00:47:26,160 –> 00:47:27,839 the SS was standing there – it was the middle of the night 976 00:47:27,839 –> 00:47:33,280 big lights, projectors, and German dogs – the SS 977 00:47:33,280 –> 00:47:37,119 with the machine guns and everything – and the 978 00:47:37,119 –> 00:47:41,520 prisoners, they call them “Kanada”, used to call those prisoners. 979 00:47:41,520 –> 00:47:44,319 They had the better prison, better treatment 980 00:47:44,319 –> 00:47:46,040 they should take from the people, 981 00:47:46,040 –> 00:47:47,680 income people, throw all the 982 00:47:47,680 –> 00:47:50,880 people’s thing’s out and everything – and they 983 00:47:50,880 –> 00:47:54,040 separated myself from my mother 984 00:47:54,040 –> 00:47:57,920 and my sister. Men here, women here. 985 00:47:57,920 –> 00:48:00,000 Auschwitz over there, in Birkenau there 986 00:48:00,000 –> 00:48:02,839 used to be the Polish cavalry used to 987 00:48:02,839 –> 00:48:04,960 hold the horses, used to be long barracks 988 00:48:04,960 –> 00:48:06,359 in the middle of the barrack used to be 989 00:48:06,359 –> 00:48:08,760 like from cement 990 00:48:08,760 –> 00:48:10,920 with hooks, where they tie the horses 991 00:48:10,920 –> 00:48:13,920 put the … over there. And they brought 992 00:48:13,920 –> 00:48:16,319 all of us – this was the last time I 993 00:48:16,319 –> 00:48:19,119 saw my parent – my mother and my sister. 994 00:48:19,119 –> 00:48:21,400 And they brought us in. 995 00:48:21,400 –> 00:48:25,319 And the SS used to go around – 996 00:48:25,319 –> 00:48:27,200 everything give up – you have gold, you have 997 00:48:27,200 –> 00:48:30,000 watches, you have fountain pens, 998 00:48:30,000 –> 00:48:33,960 everything give them away. I didn’t have nothing. 999 00:48:33,961 –> 00:48:39,000 I just have nothing to give. I was a kid. I was, 1000 00:48:39,000 –> 00:48:42,800 at that time, I was 16 years old, 17 1001 00:48:42,800 –> 00:48:45,160 years old. I looked like 14. I always looked 1002 00:48:45,160 –> 00:48:47,760 younger than I was actually, my age. 1003 00:48:47,760 –> 00:48:50,079 I was skinny – I could go 1004 00:48:50,079 –> 00:48:52,079 through the hole of a needle 1005 00:48:52,079 –> 00:48:55,799 through – the four years of ghetto. 1006 00:48:55,799 –> 00:48:57,480 I can say one thing. 1007 00:48:57,480 –> 00:49:00,059 I was never sick one day in the ghetto. 1008 00:49:00,060 –> 00:49:03,480 People die from typhus, dysentery, these things you can’t even 1009 00:49:03,480 –> 00:49:07,200 believe. I was never sick. Not even a cold. 1010 00:49:07,200 –> 00:49:09,799 Nobody in our family, actually, was sick. 1011 00:49:11,040 –> 00:49:14,559 That maybe helped us because 1012 00:49:14,559 –> 00:49:16,920 if you were sick and you were 1013 00:49:16,920 –> 00:49:18,960 deteriorated it was always a … 1014 00:49:18,960 –> 00:49:20,920 You couldn’t survive. People just died in 1015 00:49:20,920 –> 00:49:22,799 the street. You walked over in the 1016 00:49:22,799 –> 00:49:28,000 street in the ghetto and just picked them up. 1017 00:49:28,200 –> 00:49:30,799 We came over there and after they took 1018 00:49:30,799 –> 00:49:32,960 some prisoners and started to beat them up. 1019 00:49:32,960 –> 00:49:35,200 “Oh, he hid a diamond in his rectum” 1020 00:49:35,200 –> 00:49:39,520 “We know you have diamonds in your rectum” 1021 00:49:39,520 –> 00:49:42,839 They used to just pick up people and beat them up. 1022 00:49:42,839 –> 00:49:46,958 After, they put us three days on “Appell” 1023 00:49:46,959 –> 00:49:48,359 I don’t know how many, 1024 00:49:48,359 –> 00:49:50,119 a thousand, was over there. 1025 00:49:50,119 –> 00:49:53,879 We stood for three days. We didn’t get any food, nothing. 1026 00:49:53,880 –> 00:49:56,720 Everybody who fell down – that’s it. 1027 00:49:56,720 –> 00:50:00,359 You weren’t allowed even to help him. 1028 00:50:00,440 –> 00:50:04,440 That’s it. They counted us. They count, 1029 00:50:04,440 –> 00:50:06,799 and count, and count, and for some reason 1030 00:50:06,799 –> 00:50:09,119 if two are missing, they count again, 1031 00:50:09,119 –> 00:50:11,040 they count again, they count again. It was 1032 00:50:11,040 –> 00:50:13,240 day and night, and day and night – I was 1033 00:50:13,240 –> 00:50:14,960 standing over there and they count and 1034 00:50:14,960 –> 00:50:17,640 that was September. September in Poland, 1035 00:50:17,640 –> 00:50:23,359 the beginning of September gets very cool. 1036 00:50:23,359 –> 00:50:29,359 After, they put us in Barrack #2, I remember. 1037 00:50:29,359 –> 00:50:32,520 They put all the people on the 1038 00:50:32,520 –> 00:50:35,559 right side. There was a stone floor. 1039 00:50:35,559 –> 00:50:39,000 Everybody on the right side – and they cover us with those big 1040 00:50:39,000 –> 00:50:46,520 like you cover horses – big, big blankets, not for people. 1041 00:50:46,520 –> 00:50:49,319 And can you imagine, in September, 1042 00:50:49,319 –> 00:50:57,040 you sleep on a wood floor and the wake up was 5:00 1043 00:50:57,040 –> 00:50:59,319 in the morning and everybody has to go 1044 00:50:59,319 –> 00:51:01,440 people couldn’t go to the bathroom 1045 00:51:01,440 –> 00:51:03,119 in the night you’re not allowed 1046 00:51:03,119 –> 00:51:05,440 to leave the barrack because they’d shoot you 1047 00:51:05,440 –> 00:51:07,559 imagine what was going on over there 1048 00:51:07,559 –> 00:51:10,160 they defecated, they urinated, everything 1049 00:51:10,160 –> 00:51:11,040 under themselves. 1050 00:51:11,040 –> 00:51:14,160 And in the morning, who could, 1051 00:51:14,160 –> 00:51:16,079 everybody was in a big barrack 1052 00:51:16,079 –> 00:51:20,799 with the men’s room over there. 1053 00:51:20,799 –> 00:51:23,960 Did you have thoughts at that time 1054 00:51:23,960 –> 00:51:26,319 that you were determined to survive? 1055 00:51:26,319 –> 00:51:28,200 Or didn’t you? That’s what I’ll tell you. 1056 00:51:28,200 –> 00:51:30,000 I was always determined to survive. 1057 00:51:30,000 –> 00:51:31,880 I was like a ghetto kid. 1058 00:51:31,880 –> 00:51:34,760 I was ghetto smart, street smart. 1059 00:51:34,760 –> 00:51:37,559 Four years you – I had a friend over there 1060 00:51:37,559 –> 00:51:39,640 a kid who I worked with, was sitting 1061 00:51:39,640 –> 00:51:43,280 over there. Now, what I’ll tell you, the next day 1062 00:51:43,280 –> 00:51:45,920 they gave us – and this is the psychology of the 1063 00:51:45,920 –> 00:51:49,720 Germans. They gave us food for the first time. 1064 00:51:49,720 –> 00:51:53,480 They brought big vats with hot soup, 1065 00:51:53,480 –> 00:51:56,799 big vat, and they took like a washing basin, 1066 00:51:56,799 –> 00:51:59,000 the small washing basin, one, two, three, 1067 00:51:59,000 –> 00:52:02,599 four people. No fork, no spoon, no nothing. 1068 00:52:02,599 –> 00:52:05,119 People didn’t eat for three days, they gave you 1069 00:52:05,119 –> 00:52:08,799 here – four people boom, boom, boom – eat. 1070 00:52:08,799 –> 00:52:14,200 Can you imagine – how can you eat hot soup without having 1071 00:52:14,200 –> 00:52:19,240 no spoon, no fork, and 400 people fighting over there. 1072 00:52:20,960 –> 00:52:23,680 I don’t know, if I look back, 1073 00:52:23,680 –> 00:52:25,799 how I survived, I don’t know. Only a will. 1074 00:52:25,799 –> 00:52:28,040 You had to have the will to survive. I’ll tell you about 1075 00:52:28,040 –> 00:52:29,520 the kid who was sitting next to me and 1076 00:52:29,520 –> 00:52:33,119 he says “Szalek,” my name in Polish was Szalek. 1077 00:52:33,119 –> 00:52:36,400 “We’re not going to survive it.” 1078 00:52:36,400 –> 00:52:37,920 You stop talking like that – you’re a 1079 00:52:37,920 –> 00:52:40,240 young kid, you’re only 17 years old. 1080 00:52:40,240 –> 00:52:42,559 You have old men here who want to live. 1081 00:52:42,559 –> 00:52:44,319 You have all your life, the war is 1082 00:52:44,319 –> 00:52:46,200 going to end, we’re going to survive, 1083 00:52:46,200 –> 00:52:48,119 you have to be strong. 1084 00:52:48,120 –> 00:52:50,640 The next day, I looked at him, he was 1085 00:52:50,640 –> 00:52:54,240 dead. Because the will was gone. 1086 00:52:54,240 –> 00:52:56,280 He said “I want to be dead, I want to die” 1087 00:52:56,280 –> 00:52:59,400 and he died without even somebody touching him. 1088 00:52:59,400 –> 00:53:01,880 But, like in any place, you have 1089 00:53:01,880 –> 00:53:05,119 to find a way. There was across 1090 00:53:05,119 –> 00:53:08,880 women, Russian women prisoners 1091 00:53:08,880 –> 00:53:11,400 over there and I saw there was a piece of 1092 00:53:11,400 –> 00:53:12,880 glass and I said to the 1093 00:53:12,880 –> 00:53:15,920 women – during the day in Auschwitz, in Birkenau, 1094 00:53:15,920 –> 00:53:18,359 you didn’t do nothing. That was like a 1095 00:53:18,359 –> 00:53:21,760 death camp. Over there in Birkenau 1096 00:53:21,760 –> 00:53:23,359 they sent you only to 1097 00:53:23,359 –> 00:53:25,440 the crematoriums or they sent you out to work. 1098 00:53:25,440 –> 00:53:26,960 But meantime we just sat over there 1099 00:53:26,960 –> 00:53:28,400 around, just doing nothing, just sitting 1100 00:53:28,400 –> 00:53:30,680 and waiting for the 1101 00:53:30,680 –> 00:53:32,799 piece of bread and a little soup or you 1102 00:53:32,799 –> 00:53:35,559 got a little coffee, watered, and she gave 1103 00:53:35,559 –> 00:53:37,720 me, I found a piece of wood, 1104 00:53:37,720 –> 00:53:41,200 and I was already a skilled machinist after four 1105 00:53:41,200 –> 00:53:44,000 years – I made from the wood and a 1106 00:53:44,000 –> 00:53:46,079 piece of glass, I made like a spoon 1107 00:53:46,079 –> 00:53:47,920 with a sharp point on the other side 1108 00:53:47,920 –> 00:53:49,960 that I can – if they give the four people 1109 00:53:49,960 –> 00:53:51,960 the piece of – I have something to 1110 00:53:51,960 –> 00:53:54,000 eat with. I can help myself. 1111 00:53:54,000 –> 00:53:57,720 And the other trick was to get at 1112 00:53:57,720 –> 00:54:00,839 2:00, they used to call “hey, four people, 1113 00:54:00,839 –> 00:54:04,040 eight people, 10 people, 12 people bread, bread” 1114 00:54:04,040 –> 00:54:06,920 Bring the bread from the 1115 00:54:06,920 –> 00:54:10,000 the baker over there, from the magazine. 1116 00:54:10,000 –> 00:54:12,119 We used to get each, four people, used to get 1117 00:54:12,119 –> 00:54:14,400 a blanket, and used to hold the 1118 00:54:14,400 –> 00:54:15,720 edge, and used to go over there and pick 1119 00:54:15,720 –> 00:54:18,079 up the bread. The bread was mostly – 1120 00:54:18,079 –> 00:54:22,240 they throw the bread, it used to fall apart. 1121 00:54:22,240 –> 00:54:24,720 What I used to do, and I used to 1122 00:54:24,720 –> 00:54:26,960 come to the block, everybody has the same 1123 00:54:26,960 –> 00:54:30,559 face – how can you see who – I used to grab a 1124 00:54:30,559 –> 00:54:33,359 piece and just run away. 1125 00:54:33,359 –> 00:54:35,440 Take my chance. You had to do something. 1126 00:54:35,440 –> 00:54:39,559 Even that kid, you had to do something. 1127 00:54:39,559 –> 00:54:41,599 Mr. Biezunski, we’re going to have to pause now and 1128 00:54:41,599 –> 00:54:43,000 we’ll take a break and then we’ll get 1129 00:54:43,000 –> 00:54:47,599 back to your story. Okay. Thank you. 1130 00:54:56,599 –> 00:54:59,720 Mr. Biezunski, we would like to go back to an 1131 00:54:59,720 –> 00:55:02,000 earlier part of your life when you were 1132 00:55:02,000 –> 00:55:04,040 involved in a strike in a metal 1133 00:55:04,040 –> 00:55:06,559 working factory in Łódź. 1134 00:55:06,559 –> 00:55:09,920 Yes, there was a time, where we worked 1135 00:55:09,920 –> 00:55:12,359 and there was some disapproval about the 1136 00:55:12,359 –> 00:55:16,000 second, the night shift, and most of the workers used 1137 00:55:16,000 –> 00:55:20,040 to be young boys like myself. And we 1138 00:55:20,040 –> 00:55:22,240 stood up with the fellows and we decide that 1139 00:55:22,240 –> 00:55:24,039 the other shift, they’re going to strike 1140 00:55:24,039 –> 00:55:26,079 and to support the other people 1141 00:55:26,079 –> 00:55:30,160 involved in the conflict. 1142 00:55:30,160 –> 00:55:33,039 Being young we didn’t really understand 1143 00:55:33,039 –> 00:55:34,400 the consequences, what a 1144 00:55:34,400 –> 00:55:36,640 strike means in the German occupation. 1145 00:55:36,640 –> 00:55:40,480 But the ghetto was run 1146 00:55:40,480 –> 00:55:44,319 by Jewish police and it was a Jewish 1147 00:55:44,440 –> 00:55:47,400 “Ältester”, like the head of the 1148 00:55:47,400 –> 00:55:51,039 community. His name was Chaim Rumkowski. 1149 00:55:51,039 –> 00:55:54,440 And actually police came and 1150 00:55:54,440 –> 00:55:57,599 arrested all of us and brought us 1151 00:55:57,599 –> 00:56:01,119 to the police station, and he came over there, 1152 00:56:01,119 –> 00:56:03,880 and talked to us, and explained 1153 00:56:03,880 –> 00:56:07,039 that we are lucky that the Germans, the Gestapo, 1154 00:56:07,039 –> 00:56:10,240 didn’t get wind of it because we 1155 00:56:10,240 –> 00:56:13,359 might be all shot and that was really true 1156 00:56:13,359 –> 00:56:16,760 And we decide to give it up 1157 00:56:16,760 –> 00:56:19,160 and go back to work and settle 1158 00:56:19,160 –> 00:56:23,640 the matter. But this was 1159 00:56:23,640 –> 00:56:26,920 really a moment where we were really – 1160 00:56:26,920 –> 00:56:29,640 if the Germans found out about it, there 1161 00:56:29,640 –> 00:56:31,240 was no question, they would’ve taken us out 1162 00:56:31,240 –> 00:56:34,599 over there to the square and shot or 1163 00:56:34,599 –> 00:56:38,000 hanged like they did with other people. 1164 00:56:38,000 –> 00:56:40,280 So this was the only time that 1165 00:56:40,280 –> 00:56:41,760 you were involved in any type of 1166 00:56:41,760 –> 00:56:44,319 resistance? Yeah. Is that true? There was 1167 00:56:44,319 –> 00:56:47,559 no resistance because, like I told you, 1168 00:56:47,559 –> 00:56:49,880 because there was no way to resist. 1169 00:56:49,880 –> 00:56:52,240 We didn’t have any weapons. We were 1170 00:56:52,240 –> 00:56:54,240 surrounded by a hostile Polish 1171 00:56:54,240 –> 00:56:56,240 population where they just 1172 00:56:56,240 –> 00:56:58,280 laughed at us through the – we had 1173 00:56:58,280 –> 00:57:01,480 like a – when I walked to work I walked along 1174 00:57:01,480 –> 00:57:03,839 the street and all the street there was 1175 00:57:03,839 –> 00:57:10,440 a fence with steel wires 1176 00:57:10,440 –> 00:57:13,480 a wooden fence, and each 1177 00:57:13,480 –> 00:57:16,839 few hundred meters you had a guard 1178 00:57:16,839 –> 00:57:20,200 the German … but the trolley used to go 1179 00:57:20,200 –> 00:57:22,760 over there and the Poles used to travel 1180 00:57:22,760 –> 00:57:27,640 through the trolley, through the ghetto, 1181 00:57:27,641 –> 00:57:31,000 they used to laugh at us, make a sign, and 1182 00:57:31,000 –> 00:57:32,720 show like that, and you cut your throat. 1183 00:57:32,720 –> 00:57:35,680 The Jew in Poland has 1184 00:57:35,680 –> 00:57:38,599 no protection at all. There wasn’t a 1185 00:57:38,599 –> 00:57:40,640 concentration camp – it was known that 1186 00:57:40,640 –> 00:57:45,119 if you escape you have no way to 1187 00:57:45,119 –> 00:57:47,119 survive only if you really have somebody 1188 00:57:47,119 –> 00:57:49,760 you know somebody who really wants 1189 00:57:49,760 –> 00:57:52,520 to help you out. If you don’t have 1190 00:57:52,520 –> 00:57:55,240 the means to pay him for it in gold or 1191 00:57:55,240 –> 00:57:57,200 diamonds, they’re not going to do it because 1192 00:57:57,200 –> 00:57:59,160 the Germans offered them for each Jewish head 1193 00:57:59,160 –> 00:58:02,520 a kilo of sugar and a bottle of vodka. 1194 00:58:02,520 –> 00:58:04,880 That was the price, the worth of a 1195 00:58:04,880 –> 00:58:09,280 Jewish life. That was after hundreds 1196 00:58:09,280 –> 00:58:11,440 of hundred of years which the Jews 1197 00:58:11,440 –> 00:58:14,079 gave to Poland and did for Poland and 1198 00:58:14,079 –> 00:58:17,640 fought for Poland. That’s how the Polish 1199 00:58:17,640 –> 00:58:21,359 population paid them back in a time of need. 1200 00:58:21,359 –> 00:58:23,240 They just deserted the Jews. 1201 00:58:23,240 –> 00:58:25,720 Not only they deserted the Jews, 1202 00:58:25,720 –> 00:58:27,520 they were happy to get rid of them 1203 00:58:27,520 –> 00:58:29,920 because they took their houses, they took 1204 00:58:29,920 –> 00:58:32,880 their goods, they took their businesses, 1205 00:58:32,880 –> 00:58:37,640 they took everything. And if you saw The Shoah, 1206 00:58:37,640 –> 00:58:43,119 you see over there that the Polish woman says “yes, I was 1207 00:58:43,119 –> 00:58:46,440 happy to get rid of them. Before I was a maid”, she 1208 00:58:46,440 –> 00:58:52,680 says, “I used to pick potatoes. Now, I’m a businessman.” 1209 00:58:52,680 –> 00:58:55,200 She spoke out fair and square. 1210 00:58:55,200 –> 00:58:59,200 Yeah, people were aware. 1211 00:58:59,200 –> 00:59:02,640 While you were in Auschwitz, did 1212 00:59:02,640 –> 00:59:06,559 you see anyone attempt to escape or did 1213 00:59:06,559 –> 00:59:10,000 you see anything, any resistance? 1214 00:59:10,000 –> 00:59:14,240 In Auschwitz, and I told you, we’ll 1215 00:59:14,240 –> 00:59:17,440 continue in Birkenau over there. And in Birkenau 1216 00:59:17,440 –> 00:59:19,680 we came to Birkenau, we stayed over there. The only 1217 00:59:19,680 –> 00:59:22,240 way out was through the crematoriums, what you can see, 1218 00:59:22,240 –> 00:59:23,839 you didn’t see it actually because it 1219 00:59:23,839 –> 00:59:26,720 was surrounded by a fence and the fence 1220 00:59:26,720 –> 00:59:29,280 was all made of blankets but 1221 00:59:29,280 –> 00:59:31,720 you see the chimney and 1222 00:59:31,720 –> 00:59:35,240 a smoke, dark smoke coming out and it was a 1223 00:59:35,240 –> 00:59:37,760 terrible stink, a smell was 1224 00:59:37,760 –> 00:59:40,960 terrific in there. And the … over there, 1225 00:59:40,960 –> 00:59:42,839 There was a road and they said the road is all 1226 00:59:42,839 –> 00:59:45,799 made of crushed bones or ashes 1227 00:59:45,799 –> 00:59:48,520 because they get rid of the – 1228 00:59:48,520 –> 00:59:52,119 There was no way out – 1229 00:59:52,119 –> 00:59:56,200 Birkenau was a “Zigeuner” camp, they called it 1230 00:59:56,200 –> 00:59:58,200 because that was a Gypsy camp, they 1231 00:59:58,200 –> 00:59:59,640 called it. Because the Gypsies, they brought 1232 00:59:59,640 –> 01:00:01,520 back the Gypsies and they exterminated 1233 01:00:01,520 –> 01:00:03,760 them over there. When I came 1234 01:00:03,760 –> 01:00:07,319 to Auschwitz, before us came 1235 01:00:07,319 –> 01:00:10,440 Jews from Hungary … they came 1236 01:00:10,440 –> 01:00:12,920 I don’t know how many, 100,000, 150,000 1237 01:00:12,920 –> 01:00:14,799 I don’t know how many they killed over there 1238 01:00:14,799 –> 01:00:18,998 in Auschwitz – Hungarian Jews – we came after that. 1239 01:00:18,999 –> 01:00:22,280 They had a number A and I have 1240 01:00:22,280 –> 01:00:23,520 a number B. 1241 01:00:23,520 –> 01:00:26,480 You see, the B transport, 1242 01:00:26,480 –> 01:00:29,880 and they have an A, in the beginning. Yeah. 1243 01:00:29,880 –> 01:00:32,359 My number was – when you were in the 1244 01:00:32,359 –> 01:00:33,720 concentration camp, they gave you all a number. 1245 01:00:33,721 –> 01:00:35,720 B6901. 1246 01:00:35,720 –> 01:00:38,919 This was your name, your birth, your everything. 1247 01:00:38,920 –> 01:00:40,240 You were not known as a person, 1248 01:00:40,240 –> 01:00:42,280 you were only a number. 1249 01:00:42,280 –> 01:00:45,440 Everything commuted to you was by 1250 01:00:45,440 –> 01:00:47,920 calling your number. They will not call you Mr. 1251 01:00:47,920 –> 01:00:53,359 Solomon Biezunski. B6901 – that’s what was your number. 1252 01:00:53,359 –> 01:00:56,559 And the only way to get out 1253 01:00:56,559 –> 01:00:59,680 was, if you’re lucky, you went to work or 1254 01:00:59,680 –> 01:01:02,880 you stayed over there, because this was 1255 01:01:02,880 –> 01:01:05,039 it was known at that time already, it was known after, 1256 01:01:05,039 –> 01:01:06,640 it was a death camp. 1257 01:01:06,640 –> 01:01:09,760 Every day, people used to come, 1258 01:01:09,760 –> 01:01:11,720 the SS used to come with some private 1259 01:01:11,720 –> 01:01:17,400 people and the whole block used to 1260 01:01:17,400 –> 01:01:22,640 disrobe and keep your hands up and 1261 01:01:22,640 –> 01:01:25,359 march by those Germans, march by, 1262 01:01:25,359 –> 01:01:26,480 completely naked. 1263 01:01:26,480 –> 01:01:29,280 And they used to look at it, how 1264 01:01:29,280 –> 01:01:33,200 you survived, the notion was when you had 1265 01:01:33,200 –> 01:01:37,079 on your cheeks here, some meat, you’re 1266 01:01:37,079 –> 01:01:39,400 workable, you can work a little more. 1267 01:01:39,400 –> 01:01:41,160 You can make it. If you had 1268 01:01:41,160 –> 01:01:43,760 no meat here, on your cheeks, 1269 01:01:43,760 –> 01:01:46,079 then you’re a “Muselmann”. I don’t know how 1270 01:01:46,079 –> 01:01:48,760 they named it, just know that a “Muselmann” was a 1271 01:01:48,760 –> 01:01:51,039 name for a man who has to be exterminated. 1272 01:01:51,039 –> 01:01:52,720 They would call it – in the beginning 1273 01:01:52,720 –> 01:01:55,359 they called “Muselmann”, I thought maybe 1274 01:01:55,359 –> 01:01:57,079 they meant Muslim. 1275 01:01:57,079 –> 01:01:59,559 But they said “No, no, no, don’t you 1276 01:01:59,559 –> 01:02:01,640 go, the Muselmann is someone who is going to be 1277 01:02:01,640 –> 01:02:05,720 exterminated.” Another way to call it. Maybe they 1278 01:02:05,720 –> 01:02:08,200 I don’t know – they meant like the 1279 01:02:08,200 –> 01:02:10,200 Bedouin, the very skinny – 1280 01:02:10,200 –> 01:02:11,520 Was this what was meant by The 1281 01:02:11,520 –> 01:02:13,599 Walking Dead when they spoke of The Walking Dead? 1282 01:02:13,599 –> 01:02:15,720 Yeah, Walking Dead was a Muselmann. 1283 01:02:15,720 –> 01:02:18,440 I don’t know where they got it – if it has any 1284 01:02:18,440 –> 01:02:21,880 connection to the Muslim religion or like the Bedouin, 1285 01:02:21,880 –> 01:02:24,319 the Muslims, the skinny desert people. 1286 01:02:24,319 –> 01:02:27,359 I don’t know, but this was the name. 1287 01:02:27,359 –> 01:02:30,480 And they looked at it and I came and they 1288 01:02:30,480 –> 01:02:32,520 said they’re looking for strong people 1289 01:02:32,520 –> 01:02:36,960 and craftsmen. And I, like everybody else, 1290 01:02:36,960 –> 01:02:39,799 I was not a big much of a person, 1291 01:02:39,799 –> 01:02:42,160 you can imagine of me, but I stood up 1292 01:02:42,160 –> 01:02:45,720 naked and there was an SS officer and 1293 01:02:45,720 –> 01:02:47,359 another few officers over there and 1294 01:02:47,359 –> 01:02:48,559 there was a civilian. 1295 01:02:48,559 –> 01:02:53,559 And the civilian asked in German 1296 01:02:53,559 –> 01:02:56,359 “what are you?” I said “I am a lathe hand.” but 1297 01:02:56,359 –> 01:02:59,200 the SS looked at me, my figure, and he says “No.” 1298 01:02:59,200 –> 01:03:03,279 But the civilian says, in German “No, we need him.” 1299 01:03:03,279 –> 01:03:07,960 And this was my ticket to life, actually. 1300 01:03:07,960 –> 01:03:12,160 Because they picked up 360 people 1301 01:03:12,160 –> 01:03:16,160 and put us on lorries and brought us 1302 01:03:16,160 –> 01:03:21,119 in the vicinity of Auschwitz to Furstengrube, it was a coal mine. 1303 01:03:21,119 –> 01:03:26,440 We came over there, it was maybe 3 in the afternoon. 1304 01:03:26,440 –> 01:03:28,839 And they disrupt us again, they put us in 1305 01:03:28,839 –> 01:03:31,640 a big open space, “Appellplatz” is what they called it. 1306 01:03:31,640 –> 01:03:34,279 The drill place, over there. 1307 01:03:34,279 –> 01:03:36,880 And can you imagine 360 people, naked, 1308 01:03:36,880 –> 01:03:39,039 standing around? They deprive you 1309 01:03:39,039 –> 01:03:41,559 of all your human rights, digging into 1310 01:03:41,559 –> 01:03:43,160 everything. You don’t even have – 1311 01:03:43,160 –> 01:03:45,298 I would say “where to put my hands?” 1312 01:03:45,299 –> 01:03:47,198 I’d put them in my pockets, but I – 1313 01:03:47,199 –> 01:03:49,398 I had, at that time, I had civilian clothes 1314 01:03:49,399 –> 01:03:50,680 what I got in Auschwitz, 1315 01:03:50,680 –> 01:03:53,200 they took my old clothes, and gave me a set 1316 01:03:53,200 –> 01:03:56,319 of clothes from a grown-up man, pants, 1317 01:03:56,319 –> 01:03:58,920 and a shirt, and a big jacket and it’s good I 1318 01:03:58,920 –> 01:04:00,758 had a belt, but they left me the shoes. 1319 01:04:00,759 –> 01:04:03,880 I had a belt and – 1320 01:04:03,880 –> 01:04:06,839 we came over there – now, yes, 1321 01:04:06,839 –> 01:04:09,359 before we came in Auschwitz, too, they 1322 01:04:09,359 –> 01:04:10,839 changed our clothes after we came out from 1323 01:04:10,839 –> 01:04:13,599 the train – change the clothes – they took us out 1324 01:04:13,599 –> 01:04:16,279 before went – the first day, they 1325 01:04:16,279 –> 01:04:20,039 shaved all your hair and they took Lysol 1326 01:04:20,039 –> 01:04:26,480 all on your – there and here and here – and all they 1327 01:04:26,480 –> 01:04:29,279 hair and they took Lysol and 1328 01:04:29,279 –> 01:04:31,640 they rubbed it in and this was burning 1329 01:04:31,640 –> 01:04:34,119 especially here, it was a terrible pain. 1330 01:04:34,119 –> 01:04:40,720 The first night, stinging in all all sensitive places. 1331 01:04:40,720 –> 01:04:43,240 We survived that too. 1332 01:04:43,240 –> 01:04:46,000 Now, we came over there, they disrobe you, 1333 01:04:46,000 –> 01:04:47,960 and you stand for two, three hours 1334 01:04:47,960 –> 01:04:49,680 and people are coming from the second 1335 01:04:49,680 –> 01:04:52,960 shift, they came back from work, like 5:00 they 1336 01:04:52,960 –> 01:04:56,200 … as they mixed with the naked people standing 1337 01:04:56,200 –> 01:04:58,440 It was 8:00 in the evening, yet already dark, 1338 01:04:58,440 –> 01:05:02,359 was already September in Poland, it’s very cold, can you imagine? 1339 01:05:02,359 –> 01:05:07,640 And they gave us those striped clothes and they gave us 1340 01:05:07,640 –> 01:05:11,799 wooden shoes and they left us only the belt 1341 01:05:11,799 –> 01:05:14,039 and they gave us different concentration … 1342 01:05:14,039 –> 01:05:18,200 And they gave us soup, the first good meal, 1343 01:05:18,200 –> 01:05:21,039 each one, and gave each one 1344 01:05:21,039 –> 01:05:27,039 a soap, and a nice piece of bread. 1345 01:05:27,680 –> 01:05:32,760 This was like paradise again after over there 1346 01:05:32,760 –> 01:05:34,720 two weeks, I was only two weeks 1347 01:05:34,720 –> 01:05:39,119 in Birkenau. I said “If I don’t go to work, 1348 01:05:39,119 –> 01:05:40,960 that’s it, you’re dead here.” And there was no way. 1349 01:05:40,960 –> 01:05:46,400 It was known that’s a “Deathlager”, death camp 1350 01:05:47,520 –> 01:05:51,960 Over there, in Furstengrube, 1351 01:05:51,960 –> 01:05:56,359 they put me in a block and 1352 01:05:56,359 –> 01:06:00,119 got you a bunk, to sleep on. 1353 01:06:00,119 –> 01:06:06,400 And they sent me to work in the mines. 1354 01:06:06,400 –> 01:06:10,319 I worked in – there was only 1,800 1355 01:06:10,319 –> 01:06:15,559 people over there. The “Lagerältester”, the civilian, was a 1356 01:06:15,559 –> 01:06:18,680 he had a red triangle – he was a political [prisoner]. 1357 01:06:18,680 –> 01:06:21,240 His name was Josef Hermann or 1358 01:06:21,240 –> 01:06:26,119 Herman Josef. The “Lagerführer”, the SS man, was a 1359 01:06:26,119 –> 01:06:27,440 lieutenant, SS lieutenant, 1360 01:06:27,440 –> 01:06:31,559 he was Josef Schmidt. He was a very young 1361 01:06:31,559 –> 01:06:34,039 person, he was maybe 20, 23 years old. 1362 01:06:34,039 –> 01:06:39,960 After the war, a prosecutor came from Kiel to 1363 01:06:39,960 –> 01:06:44,340 Israel, from Kiel, Kiel is northern, Schleswig-Holstein, 1364 01:06:44,400 –> 01:06:49,039 and he asked for people who were in Furstengrube. 1365 01:06:49,039 –> 01:06:52,160 And the police contacted me because 1366 01:06:52,160 –> 01:06:53,799 they knew the people who were 1367 01:06:53,799 –> 01:06:56,960 over there, in Furstengrube, when I gave my – 1368 01:06:56,960 –> 01:06:59,160 and he asked me if I know – he showed me a picture 1369 01:06:59,160 –> 01:07:01,000 do you know Josef Schmidt 1370 01:07:01,000 –> 01:07:04,079 Lagerführer, he showed me a picture. 1371 01:07:04,079 –> 01:07:06,720 This was after maybe 15 years and I 1372 01:07:06,720 –> 01:07:09,559 said “this is the man” he said “you’re right” 1373 01:07:09,559 –> 01:07:12,240 He was hiding for 20 years. 1374 01:07:12,240 –> 01:07:15,920 And he came out now and 1375 01:07:15,920 –> 01:07:18,440 gave himself up. You wouldn’t believe how 1376 01:07:18,440 –> 01:07:20,680 he looks now, the difference, with a beard and everything. 1377 01:07:20,680 –> 01:07:24,039 He asked me only one thing. 1378 01:07:24,039 –> 01:07:28,160 “Did he kill anything? Did you see the man actually kill somebody?” 1379 01:07:28,160 –> 01:07:31,359 I remember my father 1380 01:07:31,359 –> 01:07:34,000 always use to tell me that if somebody is a 1381 01:07:34,000 –> 01:07:36,119 murderer, you don’t have right to be a 1382 01:07:36,119 –> 01:07:37,319 murderer yourself. 1383 01:07:37,319 –> 01:07:40,440 And in fact all the people who were 1384 01:07:40,440 –> 01:07:43,240 interviewed from Furstengrube, everybody said, 1385 01:07:43,240 –> 01:07:46,520 all the Jews, he didn’t discriminate because 1386 01:07:46,520 –> 01:07:48,799 he was SS, he was a German, he was 1387 01:07:48,799 –> 01:07:50,960 in charge of them. They didn’t try 1388 01:07:50,960 –> 01:07:54,000 to lie and to lie to their 1389 01:07:54,000 –> 01:07:57,200 conscience and say “yes, he was a murderer.” 1390 01:07:57,200 –> 01:08:00,119 Everybody said the same thing. “No, he was 1391 01:08:00,119 –> 01:08:03,520 not. He never killed anybody.” And it was true. 1392 01:08:03,520 –> 01:08:07,559 Because the story was, 1393 01:08:07,559 –> 01:08:09,720 before, I was not there, 1394 01:08:09,720 –> 01:08:13,480 the January before I came, 1395 01:08:13,480 –> 01:08:16,759 a year before, in January, we had Arbeitsdienstführer Moll 1396 01:08:16,760 –> 01:08:20,779 was his name, he was a Lagerführer, second in command, 1397 01:08:20,780 –> 01:08:24,799 and Moll was a mass murderer, he was such a 1398 01:08:24,799 –> 01:08:26,479 murderer that they put him after in charge 1399 01:08:26,479 –> 01:08:28,479 him they put in charge in Auschwitz, he was so good 1400 01:08:28,479 –> 01:08:32,000 at murdering people. And on Christmas night 1401 01:08:32,000 –> 01:08:34,279 all the officers over there, they had a 1402 01:08:34,279 –> 01:08:36,880 a party going on and the night 1403 01:08:36,880 –> 01:08:38,880 shift came back, the second shift came 1404 01:08:38,880 –> 01:08:40,920 at 11:00 night, back, or 1:00, I don’t 1405 01:08:40,920 –> 01:08:44,479 remember the time, 11:00 anyhow. They came 1406 01:08:44,479 –> 01:08:47,158 back and one German Kapo was missing. 1407 01:08:47,158 –> 01:08:48,279 And they don’t know why, because they used 1408 01:08:48,279 –> 01:08:49,920 to go through a corridor with barbed wires 1409 01:08:49,920 –> 01:08:51,319 on the side, and they don’t know how 1410 01:08:51,319 –> 01:08:54,600 he escaped. Moll lined up all 1411 01:08:54,600 –> 01:08:56,880 the Lager, all the camp, in the middle of the night. 1412 01:08:56,880 –> 01:08:58,399 People had to go out, 1413 01:08:58,399 –> 01:09:00,880 winter, there was snow, everything, and they 1414 01:09:00,880 –> 01:09:03,759 picked out 1, 2, 3, 4 and just machine gunned 1415 01:09:03,759 –> 01:09:07,319 Jews! The guy who escaped was a German! 1416 01:09:07,319 –> 01:09:11,120 And they said, the rumor was said, that he stopped him, 1417 01:09:11,120 –> 01:09:14,799 Schmidt, says “listen, it’s Weihnachten, it’s Christmas, 1418 01:09:14,799 –> 01:09:17,799 enough killing for one night.” 1419 01:09:17,799 –> 01:09:22,279 And he was transferred to 1420 01:09:22,279 –> 01:09:25,880 Auschwitz, up there, and he actually got his job 1421 01:09:25,880 –> 01:09:28,560 being connected well 1422 01:09:28,560 –> 01:09:31,679 because we built a new coal mine and the 1423 01:09:31,679 –> 01:09:33,960 guy in charge of the old cold mine was 1424 01:09:33,960 –> 01:09:36,880 his father-in-law and in fact his wife 1425 01:09:36,880 –> 01:09:38,640 lived over there with her sister too, two 1426 01:09:38,640 –> 01:09:40,158 blonde girls used to even come – 1427 01:09:40,158 –> 01:09:41,740 she used to see him. 1428 01:09:41,741 –> 01:09:44,479 This was Schmidt’s father-in-law? Schmidt’s father-in-law, yeah. 1429 01:09:44,479 –> 01:09:48,040 And everybody said the same. 1430 01:09:48,040 –> 01:09:51,198 No, he didn’t kill anybody. 1431 01:09:51,198 –> 01:09:54,400 And he wanted me to go to Germany, back, 1432 01:09:54,400 –> 01:09:56,759 to be a witness. 1433 01:09:56,760 –> 01:09:58,400 This, I don’t know, don’t want to go 1434 01:09:58,400 –> 01:10:00,280 to Germany, I don’t want no German 1435 01:10:00,280 –> 01:10:02,080 court, I don’t want, I have enough of it. 1436 01:10:02,080 –> 01:10:04,480 I said “you asked me the truth” I said “I’m not 1437 01:10:04,480 –> 01:10:06,560 a murderer, I’m not going to take the man’s 1438 01:10:06,560 –> 01:10:10,400 life because of what they did to us” I said 1439 01:10:10,400 –> 01:10:12,080 “I can only tell you that” saying “I didn’t 1440 01:10:12,080 –> 01:10:15,480 see him – nobody shot”. That’s it. 1441 01:10:15,480 –> 01:10:18,360 We came to Furstengrube over there 1442 01:10:18,360 –> 01:10:22,100 they sent me to work in a group with a Polish miner 1443 01:10:22,101 –> 01:10:25,880 like his helper, we used to fix the rails over there 1444 01:10:25,880 –> 01:10:30,520 there is a long hammer, with a wrench, and used to – 1445 01:10:30,520 –> 01:10:33,480 that Pole, he liked me for some reason, 1446 01:10:33,480 –> 01:10:37,000 he always said “Szalek, after 1447 01:10:37,000 –> 01:10:39,040 the war, you’ll stay here with me 1448 01:10:39,040 –> 01:10:41,199 you’ll go to marry my daughter 1449 01:10:41,199 –> 01:10:45,679 you’re a nice guy, I like you.” And the 1450 01:10:45,679 –> 01:10:47,920 most important thing, after I worked with 1451 01:10:47,920 –> 01:10:50,159 him two weeks, three weeks he used to 1452 01:10:50,159 –> 01:10:52,280 bring a breakfast for me. His wife 1453 01:10:52,280 –> 01:10:54,679 used to prepare a breakfast for myself too. 1454 01:10:54,679 –> 01:10:59,280 Two pieces of bread with butter – God! 1455 01:10:59,280 –> 01:11:02,840 I even didn’t believe – how could it happen 1456 01:11:02,840 –> 01:11:05,679 I didn’t eat anything like that in my life. 1457 01:11:05,679 –> 01:11:08,600 But I didn’t work with him, I worked 1458 01:11:08,600 –> 01:11:11,719 with him for three or four weeks, and one 1459 01:11:11,719 –> 01:11:14,000 day on we came back for work and they 1460 01:11:14,000 –> 01:11:16,480 called my number – you go to the Arbeitsdienst- 1461 01:11:16,480 –> 01:11:18,320 the man who was in charge of the work details. 1462 01:11:18,320 –> 01:11:23,120 You call your number in the concentration camp, 1463 01:11:23,120 –> 01:11:26,159 this is a very tricky affair. 1464 01:11:26,159 –> 01:11:28,440 You never know what they’re going to do with you. 1465 01:11:28,440 –> 01:11:31,199 But I go over there and the fellow 1466 01:11:31,199 –> 01:11:34,960 says to me you’re going to work with a 1467 01:11:34,960 –> 01:11:39,920 machine – in a machine shop, next Monday. 1468 01:11:39,920 –> 01:11:43,199 And I came to the machine shop and 1469 01:11:43,199 –> 01:11:45,120 who was in charge of the machine shop – that 1470 01:11:45,120 –> 01:11:48,080 fellow, the German engineer, who picked me up 1471 01:11:48,080 –> 01:11:54,320 to go to work. And this man, for some reason, at that 1472 01:11:54,320 –> 01:11:56,880 time Germany didn’t have any craftsmen. 1473 01:11:56,880 –> 01:12:00,040 They needed every man who knew something, 1474 01:12:00,040 –> 01:12:01,800 machine, to do something, for he 1475 01:12:01,800 –> 01:12:03,719 was very concerned about the victory. 1476 01:12:03,719 –> 01:12:06,159 At that time, he didn’t know, he didn’t 1477 01:12:06,159 –> 01:12:08,239 believe they were going to lose the war. 1478 01:12:08,239 –> 01:12:10,360 But, for me, that was good, because 1479 01:12:10,360 –> 01:12:15,278 he tried to do anything to make my – 1480 01:12:15,279 –> 01:12:18,989 Your life bearable? My life bearable – because people outside, 1481 01:12:18,990 –> 01:12:23,320 they used to work, dig 1482 01:12:23,320 –> 01:12:26,159 shafts, in the water, used to keep 1483 01:12:26,159 –> 01:12:30,600 steel, without the gloves, 1484 01:12:30,600 –> 01:12:32,960 and steel, frozen, you pick up 1485 01:12:32,960 –> 01:12:36,199 a piece of steel, you pick it up, 1486 01:12:36,199 –> 01:12:38,080 you can lose all your skin 1487 01:12:38,080 –> 01:12:40,360 get glued to the steel, frozen 1488 01:12:40,360 –> 01:12:43,239 steel is very dangerous and we 1489 01:12:43,239 –> 01:12:46,239 had over there a Kapo in charge 1490 01:12:46,239 –> 01:12:49,639 of the whole work detail, used to call him Wilhelm, 1491 01:12:49,639 –> 01:12:52,060 the Kaiser, his nickname was “the Kaiser” 1492 01:12:52,061 –> 01:12:54,680 he was a mass murderer, he killed his mother-in-law, his father-in-law, 1493 01:12:54,681 –> 01:12:56,989 I don’t know how many people, and he used to beat them up, 1494 01:12:56,990 –> 01:12:59,679 but in the machine shop, he 1495 01:12:59,679 –> 01:13:01,280 was not allowed to go in and 1496 01:13:01,280 –> 01:13:02,639 when you go in you had to behave, 1497 01:13:02,639 –> 01:13:05,000 as a skilled worker, he was not allowed to 1498 01:13:05,000 –> 01:13:06,880 touch you because he 1499 01:13:06,880 –> 01:13:10,520 compromises the German – 1500 01:13:12,320 –> 01:13:15,960 industrial might – he was worried 1501 01:13:15,960 –> 01:13:18,639 that that German was very – 1502 01:13:18,639 –> 01:13:21,400 keep an eye on him, that he don’t beat – 1503 01:13:21,400 –> 01:13:23,719 there were 20 Jewish prisoners working over there. 1504 01:13:23,719 –> 01:13:25,800 We had Italians working over there, 1505 01:13:25,800 –> 01:13:28,199 prisoners of war, we had French 1506 01:13:28,199 –> 01:13:30,800 civilian workers over there, many people, and it 1507 01:13:30,800 –> 01:13:32,520 was very helpful because if you 1508 01:13:32,520 –> 01:13:34,000 work with foreigners they had more 1509 01:13:34,000 –> 01:13:35,880 access to fruit, to some potatoes, they 1510 01:13:35,880 –> 01:13:39,960 give you, this give you, 1511 01:13:40,719 –> 01:13:44,159 And I worked over there until January 1512 01:13:44,159 –> 01:13:47,480 1945, January 1945 1513 01:13:49,239 –> 01:13:53,080 but what was my luck then by having a 1514 01:13:53,080 –> 01:13:57,000 little more food, this was a camp for 1515 01:13:57,000 –> 01:14:00,040 hard workers and the hard workers and 1516 01:14:00,040 –> 01:14:03,320 the camp used to be under contract to 1517 01:14:03,320 –> 01:14:04,719 … 1518 01:14:04,719 –> 01:14:08,360 You had – it’s a big German … 1519 01:14:08,360 –> 01:14:13,520 … 1520 01:14:14,040 –> 01:14:16,760 And I worked over there 1521 01:14:16,760 –> 01:14:20,080 they gave me a bit of a piece of soap, 1522 01:14:20,080 –> 01:14:23,120 a wash cloth, what you don’t have, in the concentration camp 1523 01:14:23,120 –> 01:14:25,280 you didn’t have a towel, nothing, your shirt 1524 01:14:25,280 –> 01:14:27,760 was a towel and that’s it. 1525 01:14:27,760 –> 01:14:30,760 And we used to get – what the best 1526 01:14:30,760 –> 01:14:32,800 thing we used to get – a soup a day, but we 1527 01:14:32,800 –> 01:14:36,639 used to get three times 350 grams of bread and 1528 01:14:36,639 –> 01:14:40,000 four times 700 grams of bread. This was 1529 01:14:40,000 –> 01:14:44,600 from my – I used to stand over there 1530 01:14:44,600 –> 01:14:47,080 next to the lathe all the time chew, chew 1531 01:14:47,080 –> 01:14:49,960 whatever I get. And foreman, Adam was 1532 01:14:49,960 –> 01:14:53,040 his name, he says “why you eating like a 1533 01:14:53,040 –> 01:14:56,320 like a …, like a cow, you chew, 1534 01:14:56,320 –> 01:14:58,840 I said listen, I’m hungry, 1535 01:14:58,840 –> 01:15:00,080 four years I didn’t have a piece of 1536 01:15:00,080 –> 01:15:02,679 bread. I’m hungry. I store bread from 1537 01:15:02,679 –> 01:15:05,880 everybody, and this spot – and those 1538 01:15:05,880 –> 01:15:08,560 few months over there, they brought me, 1539 01:15:08,560 –> 01:15:11,560 back to my strength. And I always thinking 1540 01:15:11,560 –> 01:15:13,719 that my mother might see me 1541 01:15:13,719 –> 01:15:16,000 that I have my life and I’m doing, 1542 01:15:16,000 –> 01:15:18,239 compared to the circumstance, 1543 01:15:18,239 –> 01:15:19,120 I’m doing better, well – 1544 01:15:19,121 –> 01:15:21,119 You didn’t have any idea that she was – 1545 01:15:21,120 –> 01:15:23,400 No. I said, I’m the only kid, 1546 01:15:23,400 –> 01:15:25,560 the only son, she maybe 1547 01:15:25,560 –> 01:15:27,880 even while dying, she was 1548 01:15:27,880 –> 01:15:29,920 thinking about her kid. And I said: 1549 01:15:29,920 –> 01:15:34,400 I wish she, she shouldn’t – 1550 01:15:59,320 –> 01:16:02,040 Yeah. And this just was – 1551 01:16:02,040 –> 01:16:04,199 that I came a little to – 1552 01:16:04,199 –> 01:16:08,320 my strength, over there. In January 1945, 1553 01:16:08,320 –> 01:16:12,160 the big retreat began. 1554 01:16:12,161 –> 01:16:15,579 From Auschwitz, they started to take all the people out. 1555 01:16:15,580 –> 01:16:19,440 Somebody tried to hide and 1556 01:16:19,440 –> 01:16:22,040 maybe they survived. In Auschwitz they 1557 01:16:22,040 –> 01:16:24,239 killed all of the people, maybe only a few 1558 01:16:24,239 –> 01:16:28,880 survivors when the Russians came. And we were, actually, 1559 01:16:28,880 –> 01:16:30,639 normally a strong bunch of people, only 1560 01:16:30,639 –> 01:16:33,040 1,800 of us, and we started to march. 1561 01:16:33,040 –> 01:16:35,880 We started to march and I remember 1562 01:16:35,880 –> 01:16:38,560 the guy from the … gave me 1563 01:16:38,560 –> 01:16:41,600 a … I don’t know it what was. 1564 01:16:41,600 –> 01:16:44,960 And we walked over there, and we had 1565 01:16:44,960 –> 01:16:48,159 some carriages that we had to push, and 1566 01:16:48,159 –> 01:16:51,280 I had a friend, his name is …, he 1567 01:16:51,280 –> 01:16:53,400 still lives in Israel, they gave us two 1568 01:16:53,400 –> 01:16:55,679 sticks, the SS, and put his … on it, and 1569 01:16:55,679 –> 01:16:58,440 we had to carry it for him – and we 1570 01:16:58,440 –> 01:17:01,000 marched from Kattowitz to Gleiwitz, I think maybe 80 1571 01:17:01,000 –> 01:17:03,080 kilometers, I don’t know, but – 1572 01:17:03,080 –> 01:17:06,040 the snow, and people had 1573 01:17:06,040 –> 01:17:08,960 those wooden boots, but I was lucky – in 1574 01:17:08,960 –> 01:17:11,639 the concentration camp when I worked in a 1575 01:17:11,639 –> 01:17:15,239 machine shop, they had to give you leather shoes. 1576 01:17:15,239 –> 01:17:17,760 I couldn’t work with the 1577 01:17:17,760 –> 01:17:19,400 old shoes. They gave me 1578 01:17:19,400 –> 01:17:22,320 leather shoes. And the snow 1579 01:17:22,320 –> 01:17:25,080 didn’t stick to it, you can walk. And we 1580 01:17:25,080 –> 01:17:26,760 walked over there 1581 01:17:26,760 –> 01:17:30,000 and all the time, they’re shooting in the back, 1582 01:17:30,000 –> 01:17:32,480 they shooting everybody who’s left behind, 1583 01:17:32,480 –> 01:17:34,080 they just killed him. 1584 01:17:34,080 –> 01:17:37,040 You have to go for forward, there was no 1585 01:17:37,040 –> 01:17:39,480 way, some people maybe escaped, but I tell 1586 01:17:39,480 –> 01:17:42,400 you, I never had – I always, I don’t know, 1587 01:17:42,400 –> 01:17:44,560 I never tried to escape, I don’t know why. 1588 01:17:44,560 –> 01:17:47,320 But we were carrying those 1589 01:17:47,320 –> 01:17:48,480 sticks with a … 1590 01:17:48,480 –> 01:17:53,280 And even the SS, a that time, the SS, 1591 01:17:53,280 –> 01:17:57,360 even they couldn’t make it. 1592 01:17:57,360 –> 01:17:59,199 But I said to the friend, listen we’re 1593 01:17:59,199 –> 01:18:00,840 not going to make with this … 1594 01:18:00,840 –> 01:18:03,480 here on – just throw it away and 1595 01:18:03,480 –> 01:18:04,960 just run forward and that’s it, because 1596 01:18:04,960 –> 01:18:07,280 we all have the same green hat like 1597 01:18:07,280 –> 01:18:09,320 that with the stripe overcoat 1598 01:18:09,320 –> 01:18:11,199 who knows – he’s going to look? 1599 01:18:11,199 –> 01:18:12,989 Did you have any idea where you going? 1600 01:18:12,990 –> 01:18:17,920 No, no they just moved us, the SS. 1601 01:18:17,920 –> 01:18:20,920 We came, and then we threw it away, we 1602 01:18:20,920 –> 01:18:22,840 ran away, and he was hollering over there 1603 01:18:22,840 –> 01:18:24,960 “where are my things” 1604 01:18:24,960 –> 01:18:29,920 We forget it. Then, we found, over there 1605 01:18:29,920 –> 01:18:33,480 we rested a little, we found one of the 1606 01:18:33,480 –> 01:18:35,440 lorries that we had, that we pushed, 1607 01:18:35,440 –> 01:18:36,679 the small lorries. 1608 01:18:36,679 –> 01:18:38,880 And on the lorry, in the 1609 01:18:38,880 –> 01:18:42,880 concentration camp, they make 1610 01:18:42,880 –> 01:18:45,719 soup, pea soup, from powder 1611 01:18:45,719 –> 01:18:47,320 you’ll add water 1612 01:18:47,320 –> 01:18:50,800 I saw that thing, I said you’ll 1613 01:18:50,800 –> 01:18:53,080 never know, it’s some food. 1614 01:18:53,080 –> 01:18:55,400 I took – I had an extra shirt, I took 1615 01:18:55,400 –> 01:18:58,639 the shirt, and made from – tore off those 1616 01:18:58,639 –> 01:19:00,880 arms, I made like sacks and 1617 01:19:00,880 –> 01:19:04,080 put the powder in, and put under my – 1618 01:19:04,080 –> 01:19:08,120 I said to my friend, Franz over there, Henryk 1619 01:19:08,120 –> 01:19:10,120 maybe we’ll need it, we’ll take it. 1620 01:19:10,120 –> 01:19:14,400 Now we came to Gleiwitz – Gleiwitz, now the Polish 1621 01:19:14,400 –> 01:19:17,760 call it Gliwice, now it’s Poland, at that time it was German. 1622 01:19:17,760 –> 01:19:23,080 … we come to the 1623 01:19:23,719 –> 01:19:27,120 there was a station, the station, you 1624 01:19:27,120 –> 01:19:31,520 come in the station, and bodies like wood logs. 1625 01:19:31,520 –> 01:19:34,560 This way, this way, 1626 01:19:34,560 –> 01:19:39,000 5, 6 feet high. Just people, 1627 01:19:39,000 –> 01:19:41,760 human bodies, laid out like – corpses, 1628 01:19:41,760 –> 01:19:43,800 not just throwing – like laid out nice 1629 01:19:43,800 –> 01:19:45,719 like wooden logs, like you 1630 01:19:45,719 –> 01:19:48,719 store wood – stacked – yeah, and stacked and 1631 01:19:48,719 –> 01:19:51,040 they put chloride, or something – white 1632 01:19:51,040 –> 01:19:53,639 powder on top of it. Lime? 1633 01:19:53,639 –> 01:19:55,960 And they put them all in the station – 1634 01:19:59,120 –> 01:20:02,080 There was a cabinet over there – all night 1635 01:20:02,080 –> 01:20:04,000 I stood in the cabinet and slept. There was no 1636 01:20:04,000 –> 01:20:08,040 place to lay down. In the morning, 1637 01:20:08,040 –> 01:20:10,719 they said everybody on the railroad – up 1638 01:20:10,719 –> 01:20:12,040 There were open lorries – 1639 01:20:12,040 –> 01:20:14,840 not closed, this time open. 1640 01:20:14,840 –> 01:20:17,840 Like you move coal, anything. Okay – open 1641 01:20:17,840 –> 01:20:21,159 lorries and yes, what I had, when I went 1642 01:20:21,159 –> 01:20:25,199 from the concentration camp – I took one of the, 1643 01:20:25,199 –> 01:20:27,199 I had a good blanket, it was a 1644 01:20:27,199 –> 01:20:29,199 woolen blanket from the rich Jews. 1645 01:20:29,199 –> 01:20:31,360 They took it away, they gave it – 1646 01:20:31,360 –> 01:20:33,440 and I made a whole poncho, like a 1647 01:20:33,440 –> 01:20:36,199 Mexican, I put it on myself and wore it like that, 1648 01:20:36,199 –> 01:20:40,320 protect you from the wind, it was January in Poland. 1649 01:20:40,320 –> 01:20:44,920 Open lorries, my friend – we had a … 1650 01:20:44,920 –> 01:20:48,520 Like food, and pot, and he has a pot, 1651 01:20:48,520 –> 01:20:51,679 and we come out and we sit down in the lorries, 1652 01:20:51,679 –> 01:20:56,000 oh it’s nice, we’re going to go – 1653 01:20:56,000 –> 01:20:58,280 we cannot sit anymore, more people, more 1654 01:20:58,280 –> 01:21:00,080 people – we cannot stand anymore, 1655 01:21:00,080 –> 01:21:02,840 they packed the people like herrings 1656 01:21:02,840 –> 01:21:05,560 and you had to be lucky, you 1657 01:21:05,560 –> 01:21:08,040 had your back against the wall, because 1658 01:21:08,040 –> 01:21:10,320 people in the middle they got crazy 1659 01:21:10,320 –> 01:21:13,199 jumped about, they got all crazy. You wouldn’t 1660 01:21:13,199 –> 01:21:15,800 believe what was going on on that train. 1661 01:21:15,800 –> 01:21:17,679 They put the train – they couldn’t go 1662 01:21:17,679 –> 01:21:20,320 through Poznań to Germany that way. 1663 01:21:20,320 –> 01:21:22,918 You had to go through Czechoslovakia, 1664 01:21:22,919 –> 01:21:26,679 for seven days we traveled in that train. 1665 01:21:26,680 –> 01:21:29,840 We came, the first time, there was – 1666 01:21:29,840 –> 01:21:31,600 we had a Croatian SS. 1667 01:21:31,600 –> 01:21:34,040 I will never forget, we came the 1668 01:21:34,040 –> 01:21:36,520 first time, and he says to us “we have no food.” 1669 01:21:36,520 –> 01:21:38,639 They didn’t give us – they gave us a 1670 01:21:38,639 –> 01:21:42,120 piece of bread and that’s it. 1671 01:21:42,120 –> 01:21:43,960 After two days you didn’t have any food 1672 01:21:43,960 –> 01:21:48,400 how are you – I was lucky, I used to take 1673 01:21:48,400 –> 01:21:50,719 with our belts, we used to take 1674 01:21:50,719 –> 01:21:52,520 the pot and we used to pick up some 1675 01:21:52,520 –> 01:21:55,639 snow and I had that powder, I mixed it 1676 01:21:55,639 –> 01:21:58,918 together and we ate it and it was – so salty! 1677 01:21:58,919 –> 01:22:01,239 What you ate, you want to drink, 1678 01:22:01,240 –> 01:22:03,560 but we were lucky, we went – next, 1679 01:22:03,560 –> 01:22:06,880 you were protected – your back. 1680 01:22:06,880 –> 01:22:10,239 The people in the middle, they had – 1681 01:22:10,239 –> 01:22:12,440 they ate their belt, they ate their shoes. 1682 01:22:12,440 –> 01:22:14,840 You wouldn’t believe. There was nothing to eat, 1683 01:22:14,840 –> 01:22:17,419 nothing to drink. They went mad, they got crazy. 1684 01:22:17,420 –> 01:22:19,719 Then after two days we stopped and 1685 01:22:19,719 –> 01:22:22,419 then the SS says “throw out the bodies.” 1686 01:22:22,420 –> 01:22:25,299 We said “what bodies?” 1687 01:22:25,300 –> 01:22:26,219 “There’s no bodies.” 1688 01:22:26,220 –> 01:22:29,760 “Look down.” We looked down, and we didn’t 1689 01:22:29,760 –> 01:22:31,519 believe it – we were standing on dead people. 1690 01:22:31,520 –> 01:22:34,439 What did the people do, they starved to death, the people. 1691 01:22:34,440 –> 01:22:36,760 At first, we start looking, can you 1692 01:22:36,760 –> 01:22:38,440 believe that the people after two 1693 01:22:38,440 –> 01:22:40,199 days over there they still have the bread, 1694 01:22:40,199 –> 01:22:42,520 they didn’t eat the bread, they saved it. 1695 01:22:42,520 –> 01:22:44,239 We used to rob them of what they had, 1696 01:22:44,239 –> 01:22:47,480 maybe they had some food. 1697 01:22:47,480 –> 01:22:51,239 We had to open up, line up 1698 01:22:51,239 –> 01:22:53,800 in a line over there, next to the stop – 1699 01:22:55,480 –> 01:22:58,360 And I remember he says “everybody up” and 1700 01:22:58,360 –> 01:23:01,280 we went up fast, and one guy didn’t make 1701 01:23:01,280 –> 01:23:03,560 it, and he took his gun and shot him. 1702 01:23:03,560 –> 01:23:06,639 And we all ducked, but we, saw his hands, 1703 01:23:06,639 –> 01:23:09,080 like he grabbed his hands inside, 1704 01:23:09,080 –> 01:23:11,880 and he shot him again. 1705 01:23:11,880 –> 01:23:15,639 This was a Croatian SS, in 1706 01:23:15,639 –> 01:23:19,520 our concentration camp. 1707 01:23:20,080 –> 01:23:25,280 We drove through Czechoslovakia. 1708 01:23:25,280 –> 01:23:28,800 Czechoslovakia – the people were great. 1709 01:23:28,800 –> 01:23:31,080 You have the train, the overpass going, they were 1710 01:23:31,080 –> 01:23:33,520 standing over the overpass and throwing in bread 1711 01:23:33,520 –> 01:23:36,199 and fruit and speck and everything. They 1712 01:23:36,199 –> 01:23:38,400 used to run along the thing with water, 1713 01:23:38,400 –> 01:23:41,080 really – kids. And the SS used to not 1714 01:23:41,080 –> 01:23:44,159 shoot, but they scared them away. But the 1715 01:23:44,159 –> 01:23:46,199 only place what you really – they knew, 1716 01:23:46,199 –> 01:23:50,639 miles away they knew, the Czechs, that there 1717 01:23:50,639 –> 01:23:53,600 were prisoners, a camp, and you see – every 1718 01:23:53,600 –> 01:23:55,600 place there was an overpass, they just threw everything 1719 01:23:55,600 –> 01:23:58,520 that they had, dumped and – 1720 01:23:58,520 –> 01:24:01,159 We came to Prague. 1721 01:24:01,159 –> 01:24:04,000 We came to Prague, and the train is 1722 01:24:04,000 –> 01:24:06,000 standing over there, and at that time it was 1723 01:24:06,000 –> 01:24:11,280 already seven, six days with maybe 1724 01:24:11,280 –> 01:24:15,280 60 people – it was already one 1725 01:24:15,280 –> 01:24:18,639 third full, it was two thirds empty. 1726 01:24:18,639 –> 01:24:22,880 And I, myself slept a little and my 1727 01:24:22,880 –> 01:24:25,280 friend used to watch me, that nobody – 1728 01:24:25,280 –> 01:24:27,639 because people just – 1729 01:24:27,639 –> 01:24:32,199 got mad – you could, 1730 01:24:32,199 –> 01:24:33,960 you fought all the time. I went from 1731 01:24:33,960 –> 01:24:35,679 the train, I was all scratched, I didn’t 1732 01:24:35,679 –> 01:24:38,120 even believe, from fighting. 1733 01:24:38,120 –> 01:24:40,719 He protected me, I protected him – so nobody 1734 01:24:40,719 –> 01:24:45,080 grabs us or takes us – you couldn’t just 1735 01:24:45,080 –> 01:24:49,920 We came to Prague, we came to Prague. 1736 01:24:49,920 –> 01:24:52,960 On the main station – but there was 1737 01:24:52,960 –> 01:24:54,960 already a place for everybody, because so 1738 01:24:54,960 –> 01:24:57,400 many we left, so many dead over there. 1739 01:24:57,400 –> 01:25:00,480 They said they had 10,000 people on the 1740 01:25:00,480 –> 01:25:03,000 transport, and only 2,000 arrived, actually. 1741 01:25:03,000 –> 01:25:06,000 He tells me, just died on the – 1742 01:25:06,000 –> 01:25:08,920 I’m telling you, you had to have the will, you cannot 1743 01:25:08,920 –> 01:25:11,560 even believe, and I was lucky I had a few months 1744 01:25:11,560 –> 01:25:13,320 where I was in the concentration camp, with the six 1745 01:25:13,320 –> 01:25:15,199 months, I get a little strength, I was not 1746 01:25:15,199 –> 01:25:18,520 like I came from the ghetto, 1747 01:25:18,520 –> 01:25:21,040 I grew, I don’t know what happened. 1748 01:25:21,040 –> 01:25:24,040 I don’t know. Maybe it was just a lust for 1749 01:25:24,040 –> 01:25:26,760 life, who knows. Can you believe, they’re 1750 01:25:26,760 –> 01:25:31,119 standing over, whole lorries over there, luggage – 1751 01:25:31,119 –> 01:25:33,679 filled with the German bread, the 1752 01:25:33,679 –> 01:25:36,119 military bread, and this soldier is standing over there, 1753 01:25:36,119 –> 01:25:37,960 this old guard, old German. 1754 01:25:37,960 –> 01:25:41,360 And I said to him in German, I said “Sir, 1755 01:25:41,360 –> 01:25:43,080 we didn’t eat for five days. Can you give 1756 01:25:43,080 –> 01:25:45,440 us a piece of bread?” Would you believe, he 1757 01:25:45,440 –> 01:25:48,639 took a bread and gave it to me. 1758 01:25:48,960 –> 01:25:55,280 I only had a piece of it because, 1759 01:25:55,280 –> 01:25:57,400 all the rest – 1760 01:25:57,400 –> 01:26:02,119 he brought a few more for those people in there. 1761 01:26:02,119 –> 01:26:10,280 And we arrived in Nordhausen, Dora. 1762 01:26:10,280 –> 01:26:13,480 Nordhausen was in Thuringia, it was not East 1763 01:26:13,480 –> 01:26:17,040 Germany. This was a concentration camp. 1764 01:26:17,040 –> 01:26:20,960 There was all buried, the people, just straight up. 1765 01:26:20,960 –> 01:26:25,760 And they manufactured the V-1, V-2 bombs, 1766 01:26:25,760 –> 01:26:28,440 they used to make over there. Everything was manufactured 1767 01:26:28,440 –> 01:26:31,400 inside. One of the scientists here 1768 01:26:31,400 –> 01:26:33,040 was later in the news, he was in 1769 01:26:33,040 –> 01:26:34,920 charge over there, in Nordhausen. 1770 01:26:34,920 –> 01:26:37,000 Now, I want to tell you another thing. 1771 01:26:37,000 –> 01:26:39,320 In Furstengrube, what happened before 1772 01:26:39,320 –> 01:26:46,719 we left. In Furstengrube, the camp had 1773 01:26:48,520 –> 01:26:52,080 a stone wall and there was a barrack 1774 01:26:52,080 –> 01:26:54,239 here and on the other side there was a 1775 01:26:54,239 –> 01:26:57,679 railroad going. Then, five Polish guys, or 1776 01:26:57,679 –> 01:26:59,639 four Polish guys, and a 1777 01:26:59,639 –> 01:27:02,639 Jewish fellow, they dug a tunnel, under 1778 01:27:02,639 –> 01:27:06,280 the wall, to reach the station over there. 1779 01:27:06,280 –> 01:27:08,679 The railroad – always used to go, 1780 01:27:08,679 –> 01:27:11,639 the trains with coals used to go. 1781 01:27:11,639 –> 01:27:15,840 And each barrack had a big bin, 1782 01:27:15,840 –> 01:27:17,840 like a wooden bin, where you used 1783 01:27:17,840 –> 01:27:20,000 to bring coals over there – put it – each 1784 01:27:20,000 –> 01:27:21,560 one, used to come from their shift, used to 1785 01:27:21,560 –> 01:27:23,920 bring a piece of coal to heat the barrack. 1786 01:27:25,040 –> 01:27:27,320 And the guys, from that bin they 1787 01:27:27,320 –> 01:27:29,520 made a double – and they dig out. 1788 01:27:29,520 –> 01:27:33,440 And they almost were finished, then 1789 01:27:33,440 –> 01:27:36,520 the train came around and they brought a new, 1790 01:27:36,520 –> 01:27:38,840 for the bathroom, we had over there a big 1791 01:27:38,840 –> 01:27:40,320 bathroom because the people, coming from the 1792 01:27:40,320 –> 01:27:42,159 shift, from the night shift, they used to take a 1793 01:27:42,159 –> 01:27:44,040 shower, because they were all back – 1794 01:27:44,040 –> 01:27:47,560 There they brought a big pressure 1795 01:27:47,560 –> 01:27:50,320 stove, I don’t know what, big 1796 01:27:50,320 –> 01:27:52,800 steel piece and dumped it 1797 01:27:52,800 –> 01:27:55,280 from the truck, from the 1798 01:27:55,280 –> 01:27:58,880 railroad car, and everything collapsed. 1799 01:27:58,880 –> 01:28:01,560 And then the SS found out. 1800 01:28:01,560 –> 01:28:07,920 No – there was, next few weeks Sunday 1801 01:28:07,920 –> 01:28:11,520 morning, all the big SS came from 1802 01:28:11,520 –> 01:28:15,760 Auschwitz, they gave us extra good soup, 1803 01:28:15,760 –> 01:28:18,199 because normally the SS used to steal from our food too, 1804 01:28:18,199 –> 01:28:19,840 but that time to show off how 1805 01:28:19,840 –> 01:28:21,800 good they treat us they gave us a 1806 01:28:21,800 –> 01:28:24,639 piece of borscht in it, like – 1807 01:28:24,639 –> 01:28:28,960 pea soup, and everything in big this – and they 1808 01:28:28,960 –> 01:28:33,280 took, out scaffolding, and hanged all five of them. 1809 01:28:33,280 –> 01:28:36,199 Everybody has to stand up on 1810 01:28:36,199 –> 01:28:38,040 the pillar, everybody had to look up. 1811 01:28:38,040 –> 01:28:40,239 Because they tried to escape, and this 1812 01:28:40,239 –> 01:28:45,880 is the punishment. 1813 01:28:47,600 –> 01:28:50,199 But that was one, what I already, 1814 01:28:50,199 –> 01:28:53,199 face to face, so 1815 01:28:53,199 –> 01:28:56,400 like people in the ghetto, also was one – 1816 01:28:56,400 –> 01:28:59,040 they hanged a person who tried to escape, 1817 01:28:59,040 –> 01:29:01,360 it was a German Jewm he tried to escape and 1818 01:29:01,360 –> 01:29:05,679 he went through, out of the ghetto, 1819 01:29:05,679 –> 01:29:07,920 he spoke good German – 1820 01:29:07,920 –> 01:29:10,520 but for some reason, they must’ve 1821 01:29:10,520 –> 01:29:12,840 left something on it, and the Poles saw it, and 1822 01:29:12,840 –> 01:29:15,880 they gave him to the Germans, and 1823 01:29:15,880 –> 01:29:17,360 they brought him back to the ghetto and they 1824 01:29:17,360 –> 01:29:19,639 hanged him also – show what 1825 01:29:19,639 –> 01:29:21,199 happens when somebody escaped. It was 1826 01:29:21,199 –> 01:29:23,600 no party, there was no monkey business. 1827 01:29:23,600 –> 01:29:26,520 Your life was nothing. 1828 01:29:26,520 –> 01:29:29,639 You were nobody. 1829 01:29:29,639 –> 01:29:31,560 The Germans, they show such a big love 1830 01:29:31,560 –> 01:29:34,719 for animals, their dogs, their cats – the Jew, 1831 01:29:34,719 –> 01:29:39,800 for him, it was not a human being at all. 1832 01:29:39,800 –> 01:29:43,960 And we came over there in Nordhausen, 1833 01:29:43,960 –> 01:29:47,080 we stayed for a few days. 1834 01:29:47,080 –> 01:29:50,679 Also the luck was, when we came to Nordhausen 1835 01:29:50,679 –> 01:29:54,159 we were lucky, we came from the train to a big wash 1836 01:29:54,159 –> 01:29:56,800 room, and people were standing over there 1837 01:29:56,800 –> 01:29:59,520 in the washroom for hours drinking water. 1838 01:29:59,520 –> 01:30:02,880 They hydrated – I myself, for a half 1839 01:30:02,880 –> 01:30:04,880 hour I drank water. Just the water, 1840 01:30:04,880 –> 01:30:07,400 I didn’t drink water, I don’t 1841 01:30:07,400 –> 01:30:10,360 know, only the snow for seven days, for eight days. 1842 01:30:10,360 –> 01:30:12,880 And this was lucky, they put us in 1843 01:30:12,880 –> 01:30:16,400 the washroom, we could – 1844 01:30:18,760 –> 01:30:23,159 we went over there, and we came and 1845 01:30:23,159 –> 01:30:27,960 we hung out for a few days and 1846 01:30:28,080 –> 01:30:32,040 make a big – at that time, the SS 1847 01:30:32,040 –> 01:30:35,880 they looked for a business to go on. 1848 01:30:35,880 –> 01:30:38,440 If they didn’t have the business to 1849 01:30:38,440 –> 01:30:41,159 go on, they were sent to the Russian front 1850 01:30:41,159 –> 01:30:42,840 to protect the Fatherland. 1851 01:30:42,840 –> 01:30:46,480 And now, Lagerführer, was always in a clique 1852 01:30:46,480 –> 01:30:48,840 over there, they had 10, 15 SS men, 1853 01:30:48,840 –> 01:30:51,040 they looked for ways out. They have 1854 01:30:51,040 –> 01:30:52,520 to have Häftling, they have to have 1855 01:30:52,520 –> 01:30:54,639 prisoners, to guard them, 1856 01:30:54,639 –> 01:30:56,320 so they’re not going to send them – 1857 01:30:56,320 –> 01:30:57,119 he’s not free. 1858 01:30:57,119 –> 01:31:01,080 And over there, I met my 1859 01:31:01,080 –> 01:31:04,880 sister’s friend, Judenherz. He had a 1860 01:31:04,880 –> 01:31:07,280 broken arm. 1861 01:31:07,280 –> 01:31:09,880 I wanted to help him, or to stay with 1862 01:31:09,880 –> 01:31:11,719 him, together, and see what’s 1863 01:31:11,719 –> 01:31:14,320 going on. And I’m going over there, we 1864 01:31:14,320 –> 01:31:19,040 had a guy, SS, who used to bring us 1865 01:31:19,040 –> 01:31:21,080 all every day to work. It was an Austrian 1866 01:31:21,080 –> 01:31:23,239 actually, a short fellow, but he was not 1867 01:31:23,239 –> 01:31:25,400 so bad, he never mistreated nobody. He was 1868 01:31:25,400 –> 01:31:27,880 an older fellow, maybe in the forties. Because at 1869 01:31:27,880 –> 01:31:30,639 that time, already many changed, the SS 1870 01:31:30,639 –> 01:31:32,560 became older. They took the young SS 1871 01:31:32,560 –> 01:31:33,880 and sent them to the front, they brought 1872 01:31:33,880 –> 01:31:36,159 older people and put them in guard. 1873 01:31:36,159 –> 01:31:39,280 But – the murderer, the Croatian he 1874 01:31:39,280 –> 01:31:42,400 was second in charge of the Lagerführer – he stayed 1875 01:31:42,400 –> 01:31:44,920 all the time, to the very end – the one 1876 01:31:44,920 –> 01:31:46,520 who shot that fellow. 1877 01:31:46,520 –> 01:31:50,000 And that Austrian, and I’m standing over 1878 01:31:50,000 –> 01:31:54,719 on … and he says “oh, everybody …” and he, 1879 01:31:54,719 –> 01:31:57,000 I wanted to go with my – 1880 01:31:57,000 –> 01:32:01,400 the guy Judenherz. And he says “Du kleiner Dreher”, 1881 01:32:01,400 –> 01:32:04,040 says “hey, you small hand lathe”, he grabbed me 1882 01:32:04,040 –> 01:32:07,199 here by the – you come with us. And they 1883 01:32:07,199 –> 01:32:10,199 had from 1,800 left to maybe 100, maybe 1884 01:32:10,199 –> 01:32:12,920 it was already 800 or 1,000 died on the way, 1885 01:32:12,920 –> 01:32:15,679 through all the ordeals of the seven days, 1886 01:32:15,679 –> 01:32:18,679 where maybe 800 people, 400, 500, 1887 01:32:18,679 –> 01:32:21,440 I don’t remember, but he remembers that I was a 1888 01:32:21,440 –> 01:32:24,320 craftsman, I was a skilled worker, 1889 01:32:24,320 –> 01:32:26,760 then they picked up 300 people, and brought 1890 01:32:26,760 –> 01:32:29,679 us to … also Tuttlingen. 1891 01:32:29,679 –> 01:32:33,239 Over there we, built the new plant 1892 01:32:33,239 –> 01:32:37,000 under, in the mountains. 1893 01:32:37,000 –> 01:32:40,000 It was very primitive, they have … 1894 01:32:40,000 –> 01:32:41,280 they have nothing, 1895 01:32:41,280 –> 01:32:44,960 with 15 SS and then 300 people. 1896 01:32:44,960 –> 01:32:48,159 When everybody worked over there, dig a little, it was 1897 01:32:48,159 –> 01:32:50,560 not actually – it was nothing much to do, 1898 01:32:50,560 –> 01:32:53,320 I used to work, they gave me in – 1899 01:32:53,320 –> 01:32:56,199 one of the corridors, in the 1900 01:32:56,199 –> 01:32:58,040 mine – it was like a mine, they 1901 01:32:58,040 –> 01:32:59,600 dig out the mountain – they wanted 1902 01:32:59,600 –> 01:33:03,159 to bring all the war production underground, that cannot be 1903 01:33:03,159 –> 01:33:05,440 bombed. And that’s what they used to do and 1904 01:33:05,440 –> 01:33:08,480 there was over there a machine shop with 1905 01:33:08,480 –> 01:33:12,600 Ukrainians working, Ukrainian civil workers. 1906 01:33:12,600 –> 01:33:17,840 And I used to do, it was not much to do. 1907 01:33:17,840 –> 01:33:22,239 This was in April. They were hanging over there for 1908 01:33:22,239 –> 01:33:25,679 a month, maybe five, six weeks. 1909 01:33:25,679 –> 01:33:28,800 And the war is going on, 1910 01:33:28,800 –> 01:33:31,360 and the Ukrainian, we had with the 1911 01:33:31,360 –> 01:33:33,280 Ukrainian, we’re going home. 1912 01:33:33,280 –> 01:33:37,280 They tried to prepare everything to go 1913 01:33:37,280 –> 01:33:41,560 home. And we didn’t know what will happen to us. 1914 01:33:42,119 –> 01:33:46,960 One day, they take us, and we march, 1915 01:33:46,960 –> 01:33:51,800 start marching. We’re marching – Magdeburg, 1916 01:33:51,800 –> 01:33:53,960 big city, and I marched over there in the 1917 01:33:53,960 –> 01:33:56,119 street with the SS, and I see young 1918 01:33:56,119 –> 01:33:59,480 kids, going on, my age – boys and girls, 1919 01:33:59,480 –> 01:34:02,119 free, going in the city and 1920 01:34:02,119 –> 01:34:04,440 I’m here like a prisoner under guard, 1921 01:34:04,440 –> 01:34:06,880 going on the side of the road, 1922 01:34:06,880 –> 01:34:08,960 in the middle and under gun, 1923 01:34:08,960 –> 01:34:11,960 like “what did I do to those people?” 1924 01:34:11,960 –> 01:34:14,119 “why do they treat me like that?” I said, 1925 01:34:14,119 –> 01:34:16,440 “all my youth wasted” 1926 01:34:16,440 –> 01:34:18,800 The best years, best five years that a 1927 01:34:18,800 –> 01:34:21,199 young man has, go to high 1928 01:34:21,199 –> 01:34:23,760 school, girls, dating. 1929 01:34:23,760 –> 01:34:25,360 You fight for your life, all 1930 01:34:25,360 –> 01:34:28,400 the time, you’re starved, you’re beaten, your 1931 01:34:28,400 –> 01:34:30,520 parents are gone. 1932 01:34:30,520 –> 01:34:33,840 You didn’t think about it. You didn’t think. 1933 01:34:33,840 –> 01:34:36,480 I remember, when I was liberated, I was 1934 01:34:36,480 –> 01:34:39,520 sure that the whole world would be at my hands. 1935 01:34:39,520 –> 01:34:42,119 They would kiss me on the hands, like that. 1936 01:34:42,119 –> 01:34:45,159 That there’s nobody who would refuse me. 1937 01:34:45,159 –> 01:34:47,800 What I went through, what 1938 01:34:47,800 –> 01:34:49,840 they did to me, for what? 1939 01:34:49,840 –> 01:34:53,520 We marched to Heiligenstadt, another city, 1940 01:34:53,520 –> 01:34:55,520 we marched for days, marched too. 1941 01:34:55,520 –> 01:34:59,719 They brought us to the Elba river. 1942 01:34:59,719 –> 01:35:03,400 And they put us on a big ship, 1943 01:35:03,400 –> 01:35:08,639 in a tow boat. 1944 01:35:08,639 –> 01:35:10,600 In front of it, and used to schlep two of them, 1945 01:35:10,600 –> 01:35:12,840 two big, how they call them? 1946 01:35:12,840 –> 01:35:15,440 Lorries, the big lorries and 1947 01:35:15,440 –> 01:35:18,600 up front is an engine 1948 01:35:18,600 –> 01:35:23,920 and we go for two, three, 1949 01:35:23,920 –> 01:35:26,119 I don’t know how many days, we went all the 1950 01:35:26,119 –> 01:35:28,960 way to Northern Germany, to the Kaiser – 1951 01:35:28,960 –> 01:35:33,800 from the Elba in the Kaiser Wilhelm Canal, and we 1952 01:35:33,800 –> 01:35:39,600 end up in Lübeck on the Ostsee. The canal goes to Lübeck on the Ostsee. 1953 01:35:40,920 –> 01:35:44,560 And they took us out 1954 01:35:44,560 –> 01:35:52,440 and what it was is that they took us out, and said Josef Schmidt, 1955 01:35:52,440 –> 01:35:57,600 his parents, had a big farm in Schleswig-Holstein, Anspeck, 1956 01:35:57,600 –> 01:36:00,600 the small town was called Anspeck, and they 1957 01:36:00,600 –> 01:36:03,040 were farmers – he came from that place, and 1958 01:36:03,040 –> 01:36:04,960 he says what am I going to do, I’m going – 1959 01:36:04,960 –> 01:36:07,400 I keep my business 1960 01:36:07,400 –> 01:36:10,159 upright and then I go take 1961 01:36:10,159 –> 01:36:11,840 the people with me that we have to 1962 01:36:11,840 –> 01:36:14,159 guard them all the time and he saw the 1963 01:36:14,159 –> 01:36:16,159 Russians are coming in Thuringia 1964 01:36:16,159 –> 01:36:18,280 and we have to go some place and he took 1965 01:36:18,280 –> 01:36:20,719 us to his place, where he 1966 01:36:20,719 –> 01:36:23,199 lives over there, and they put 1967 01:36:23,199 –> 01:36:26,440 us in a big building over there on 1968 01:36:26,440 –> 01:36:31,080 the road, and we, the 300 people, maybe 250 1969 01:36:31,080 –> 01:36:33,960 already, on one side and the 15 SS on the 1970 01:36:33,960 –> 01:36:36,960 other side guarding us, and he went with 1971 01:36:36,960 –> 01:36:39,280 his wife and his father, and wife too and 1972 01:36:39,280 –> 01:36:41,440 his sister went with him all the time – 1973 01:36:41,440 –> 01:36:43,440 they went over there to live on 1974 01:36:43,440 –> 01:36:44,760 on the big farm. 1975 01:36:44,760 –> 01:36:47,320 Now, what do you do with those Jews, you 1976 01:36:47,320 –> 01:36:48,880 don’t have nothing to do with the Jews, 1977 01:36:48,880 –> 01:36:51,159 what you do with the Jews – you send them to 1978 01:36:51,159 –> 01:36:53,880 work, to the farmers. You take 1979 01:36:53,880 –> 01:36:57,480 like five guys, used to take some to women. 1980 01:36:57,480 –> 01:36:59,960 She had to dig up a garden 1981 01:36:59,960 –> 01:37:02,080 for the spring, then we used to dig up the garden, 1982 01:37:02,080 –> 01:37:04,000 she used to give us a little fruit. 1983 01:37:04,000 –> 01:37:07,080 One farmer – 1984 01:37:07,080 –> 01:37:10,159 after the war I was for a few 1985 01:37:10,159 –> 01:37:11,360 years, over there, 1986 01:37:11,360 –> 01:37:14,119 in Neustadt. And I used to go to Anspeck every 1987 01:37:14,119 –> 01:37:17,760 Sunday to drive to him, was he was a 1988 01:37:17,760 –> 01:37:20,239 Dutch farmer who lived in Germany, Dutch or German, 1989 01:37:20,239 –> 01:37:22,960 he was a very nice person. We worked 1990 01:37:22,960 –> 01:37:25,159 for him, the five people, he used to give us food, 1991 01:37:25,159 –> 01:37:26,679 he used to give us potatoes for the 1992 01:37:26,679 –> 01:37:29,400 other guys, he treated us, I’m telling you, he 1993 01:37:29,400 –> 01:37:32,480 didn’t know what to do – and also 1994 01:37:32,480 –> 01:37:34,159 he wanted me to marry his daughter – I don’t 1995 01:37:34,159 –> 01:37:36,719 know why, for some reason everybody – but she schlepped 1996 01:37:36,719 –> 01:37:39,320 the fruits, she was a little thing. 1997 01:37:39,320 –> 01:37:41,560 But the one daughter – very rich – and there 1998 01:37:41,560 –> 01:37:44,159 were two Polish girls, I’ll never forget, working over 1999 01:37:44,159 –> 01:37:48,000 there and they found out I’m Polish – they 2000 01:37:48,000 –> 01:37:50,159 said “why don’t you stay in the 2001 01:37:50,159 –> 01:37:52,520 nights, with us here?” – they lived on 2002 01:37:52,520 –> 01:37:55,520 the top of the house over there. They wanted 2003 01:37:55,520 –> 01:37:58,040 to have some love, I said “you’re 2004 01:37:58,040 –> 01:38:00,639 crazy, I’ll stay here. They’ll shoot me.” I want 2005 01:38:00,639 –> 01:38:03,199 to hide you, stay here, don’t go back. 2006 01:38:03,199 –> 01:38:06,639 But I tell you, I never had the guts. But we 2007 01:38:06,639 –> 01:38:09,239 had an SS man, he was an old man already, and 2008 01:38:09,239 –> 01:38:11,239 I was the speaker between the two guys, 2009 01:38:11,239 –> 01:38:13,480 I knew German from home, 2010 01:38:13,480 –> 01:38:15,599 and he says, “Listen, 2011 01:38:15,599 –> 01:38:18,400 no monkey business. Don’t make 2012 01:38:18,400 –> 01:38:20,719 any pulls. The war is going every day, it’s 2013 01:38:20,719 –> 01:38:23,920 going to end. Just make sure you 2014 01:38:23,920 –> 01:38:26,440 survive. Don’t run away. Don’t ask.. “ 2015 01:38:26,440 –> 01:38:31,760 Anyhow, on the 2nd of May 1945, 2016 01:38:31,760 –> 01:38:36,920 Mr. Schmidt, our Lagerführer, brought us to Neustadt, 2017 01:38:36,920 –> 01:38:40,400 Neustadt used to be a base, a U-boat base, one 2018 01:38:40,400 –> 01:38:43,719 two … U-boat base, military base. 2019 01:38:43,719 –> 01:38:47,599 And in Neustadt we saw from far 2020 01:38:47,599 –> 01:38:50,599 away a big ship standing, the big ship 2021 01:38:50,599 –> 01:38:52,760 was named Cap Arcona. Used to – before the war, 2022 01:38:52,760 –> 01:38:54,880 used to be the Hamburg-New York line, Hamburg- 2023 01:38:54,880 –> 01:38:58,360 America line, used to go, travel – 2024 01:38:58,360 –> 01:39:02,360 it was about a 27 or 26,000 ship, a passenger ship. 2025 01:39:02,360 –> 01:39:05,040 And he says “we’re going to bring 2026 01:39:05,040 –> 01:39:08,000 you on the ship and you’re 2027 01:39:08,000 –> 01:39:14,199 going to Sweden” – now before we came to 2028 01:39:14,199 –> 01:39:16,920 Neustadt we were in that place, the same 2029 01:39:16,920 –> 01:39:19,199 place, and they came – the Red Cross 2030 01:39:19,199 –> 01:39:21,360 International Red Cross – came. 2031 01:39:21,360 –> 01:39:24,360 What was humiliating – 2032 01:39:24,360 –> 01:39:26,320 Westjuden – they looked for Jews from 2033 01:39:26,320 –> 01:39:29,800 Western Europe, who speak Dutch 2034 01:39:29,800 –> 01:39:32,480 French, English foreign language. 2035 01:39:32,480 –> 01:39:34,000 Even if you were Polish-Jewish you might get 2036 01:39:34,000 –> 01:39:35,960 away, they took them away. In fact they 2037 01:39:35,960 –> 01:39:38,360 took the Western Jews away, the Eastern 2038 01:39:38,360 –> 01:39:40,599 Jews like myself, the Polish Jew has no rights 2039 01:39:40,599 –> 01:39:42,440 to live – nobody wants to even protect him. 2040 01:39:42,440 –> 01:39:44,800 They just gave us a 2041 01:39:44,800 –> 01:39:46,199 few cigarettes and a few pieces of 2042 01:39:46,199 –> 01:39:48,080 chocolate and they took away – 2043 01:39:48,080 –> 01:39:50,040 Who were these, the Americans? 2044 01:39:50,040 –> 01:39:52,719 No, they were Swedes or Swiss, I 2045 01:39:52,719 –> 01:39:55,440 don’t know, not American. This was an international – 2046 01:39:55,440 –> 01:39:58,760 I think Swiss Red Cross. 2047 01:39:58,760 –> 01:40:02,119 The rest of the people, they ignored they 2048 01:40:02,119 –> 01:40:05,199 picked a few people who knew a foreign language, 2049 01:40:05,199 –> 01:40:09,880 they said yeah I’m a Frenchman, parlez francais, oui, and they got away. 2050 01:40:09,880 –> 01:40:13,159 He comes to us and we, with the rest of us, 2051 01:40:13,159 –> 01:40:16,719 about 300 people, they took us to 2052 01:40:16,719 –> 01:40:19,360 the harbor over there, 2053 01:40:19,360 –> 01:40:22,239 we see there’s a German Marine, 2054 01:40:22,239 –> 01:40:23,920 the Navy over there, guarding, 2055 01:40:23,920 –> 01:40:25,440 and the big ship and they took us off the 2056 01:40:25,440 –> 01:40:28,320 tow boat, tug boat, about 150 each one. And they 2057 01:40:28,320 –> 01:40:30,520 brought us over there to the ship. 2058 01:40:30,520 –> 01:40:34,639 We come to the ship and the SS says, 2059 01:40:34,639 –> 01:40:36,360 this officer standing guard over there, 2060 01:40:36,360 –> 01:40:38,159 and put a big spotlight he says “what’s 2061 01:40:38,159 –> 01:40:40,719 wrong?” – “We have here 300 people, 2062 01:40:40,719 –> 01:40:43,040 you have to take them.” 2063 01:40:43,040 –> 01:40:44,880 He says I cannot take those 300 people, I have 2064 01:40:44,880 –> 01:40:46,679 8,000 prisoners here on board, where do 2065 01:40:46,679 –> 01:40:50,639 you want me to take them. He went back and 2066 01:40:50,639 –> 01:40:52,599 the port commandant gave him a call 2067 01:40:52,599 –> 01:40:54,840 and he went back and he took us and the 2068 01:40:54,840 –> 01:40:58,400 luck was that we – all the prisoners were 2069 01:40:58,400 –> 01:41:00,199 under deck and we were the last one 2070 01:41:00,199 –> 01:41:03,320 on the highest spot, they put us 2071 01:41:03,320 –> 01:41:09,719 10 people in a small cabin for one person. 2072 01:41:09,719 –> 01:41:11,920 And the ship was anchored 2073 01:41:11,920 –> 01:41:13,800 maybe 5 kilometers out because it was a big 2074 01:41:13,800 –> 01:41:15,840 ship, and it was a small port, for 2075 01:41:15,840 –> 01:41:18,199 fishermen – we cannot go. And we were 2076 01:41:18,199 –> 01:41:20,119 standing over there in the morning on 2077 01:41:20,119 –> 01:41:21,320 May 3rd. 2078 01:41:21,320 –> 01:41:24,800 Oh, boom, shooting, what’s going on. 2079 01:41:24,800 –> 01:41:28,239 You wouldn’t even believe. And the 2080 01:41:28,239 –> 01:41:30,000 planes are coming and the Germans are 2081 01:41:30,000 –> 01:41:34,000 shooting in and for some reason they saw 2082 01:41:34,000 –> 01:41:35,840 such a big target they didn’t 2083 01:41:35,840 –> 01:41:38,239 know what was on it – the British, 2084 01:41:38,239 –> 01:41:40,000 they bombed the ship. 2085 01:41:40,000 –> 01:41:43,719 And can you imagine the 2086 01:41:43,719 –> 01:41:47,679 ship, 8,000 prisoners on it, and then 2087 01:41:47,679 –> 01:41:50,440 SS on top of it – machine guns – 2088 01:41:50,440 –> 01:41:53,920 and the 8,000 people the ship burns on 2089 01:41:53,920 –> 01:41:55,760 top, all the buildings on top 2090 01:41:55,760 –> 01:41:58,679 start burning from the bombs what they throw over there. 2091 01:41:58,679 –> 01:42:02,119 And most were Poles and Russian prisoners, 2092 01:42:02,119 –> 01:42:05,520 we were actually the only Jews, 2093 01:42:05,520 –> 01:42:07,520 300, 250 peoples. 2094 01:42:07,520 –> 01:42:11,440 And you couldn’t open the door – the door 2095 01:42:11,440 –> 01:42:15,440 opened outside in the cabin – 2096 01:42:15,440 –> 01:42:17,920 you couldn’t open the door outside 2097 01:42:17,920 –> 01:42:21,040 because it was all full with people 2098 01:42:21,040 –> 01:42:24,920 trying they fought the Germans, the fought the machine guns, 2099 01:42:24,920 –> 01:42:27,040 they fought the SS, everybody tried to escape 2100 01:42:27,040 –> 01:42:29,560 and they go out and – 2101 01:42:29,560 –> 01:42:34,840 the screaming, and we didn’t see nothing, we didn’t know 2102 01:42:34,840 –> 01:42:37,040 nothing, we couldn’t get out. 10 people 2103 01:42:37,040 –> 01:42:39,159 trapped over in the cabin and we 2104 01:42:39,159 –> 01:42:45,840 only feel the ship – listing. 2105 01:42:45,840 –> 01:42:51,800 And in the very end, four Russian and one 2106 01:42:51,800 –> 01:42:54,199 Jewish guy, Stefan, from our concentration camp, 2107 01:42:54,199 –> 01:42:58,480 for some reason, they swam the 5 kilometers, May, in the Ostsee, 2108 01:42:58,480 –> 01:43:03,360 to the port. The whole ship went down, only 2109 01:43:03,360 –> 01:43:05,679 a small spot, you know a ship 2110 01:43:05,679 –> 01:43:08,440 goes like that, and it was not so deep, only 2111 01:43:08,440 –> 01:43:10,719 a small spot on the top. 2112 01:43:10,719 –> 01:43:13,920 And looking we see the skies. 2113 01:43:13,920 –> 01:43:17,360 We see the skies, we didn’t know 2114 01:43:17,360 –> 01:43:19,360 what’s happening, he opens the round, you 2115 01:43:19,360 –> 01:43:21,960 know – the window. One guy 2116 01:43:21,960 –> 01:43:23,679 wants to go out – he cannot go out, almost 2117 01:43:23,679 –> 01:43:25,280 broke his bones, they started to 2118 01:43:25,280 –> 01:43:27,520 push him out – he can’t, he was – 2119 01:43:27,520 –> 01:43:30,560 I was always a slim person 2120 01:43:30,560 –> 01:43:34,520 and I went out and I go out and the ship 2121 01:43:34,520 –> 01:43:38,040 burned was terrible, but what the ship was 2122 01:43:38,040 –> 01:43:40,760 anchored to was big wooden post, 2123 01:43:40,760 –> 01:43:43,199 tremendous big, like that. It was 2124 01:43:43,199 –> 01:43:47,119 with a big anchor to the post 2125 01:43:47,119 –> 01:43:53,760 like big lines … 2126 01:43:53,760 –> 01:43:56,040 And I was all naked because I 2127 01:43:56,040 –> 01:43:57,560 had to take the clothes off, 2128 01:43:57,560 –> 01:43:59,840 and all naked, like a monkey, I went to 2129 01:43:59,840 –> 01:44:02,560 the big line, walk through, and 2130 01:44:02,560 –> 01:44:05,840 sat on the middle – there was, each one was 2131 01:44:05,840 –> 01:44:07,719 heavy like that like five, six, 10 of them, 2132 01:44:07,719 –> 01:44:09,679 like a small island, that would 2133 01:44:09,679 –> 01:44:12,199 anchor the ship. And I was 2134 01:44:12,199 –> 01:44:17,280 sitting up there and here, you don’t hear a sound. 2135 01:44:17,280 –> 01:44:22,719 The people – after hours – almost got 2136 01:44:22,719 –> 01:44:27,080 dark, the British got wind and it was a 2137 01:44:27,080 –> 01:44:30,119 ship with prisoners on it. And they took 2138 01:44:30,119 –> 01:44:33,119 the fishermen, they came out, and they 2139 01:44:33,119 –> 01:44:36,599 took 37 people off and I was the one kid. 2140 01:44:36,599 –> 01:44:39,520 I was like a monkey over there. And they 2141 01:44:39,520 –> 01:44:41,280 took me on the boat, I was completely 2142 01:44:41,280 –> 01:44:44,320 naked, they gave me a blanket. 2143 01:44:44,320 –> 01:44:46,840 I never remember – my sister in school, 2144 01:44:46,840 –> 01:44:49,400 she learned a little English, and started – 2145 01:44:49,400 –> 01:44:51,440 And there was a Navy – there was one of 2146 01:44:51,440 –> 01:44:54,360 the tanks, there was a big beret, he was a tank – 2147 01:44:54,360 –> 01:44:56,840 he gave me a whole bag of biscuits, 2148 01:44:56,840 –> 01:44:59,800 like a tin can, and was a 2149 01:44:59,800 –> 01:45:01,920 Navy officer came, with a staff … 2150 01:45:01,920 –> 01:45:05,000 another officer, and he came down and 2151 01:45:05,000 –> 01:45:08,400 I said to him, he said “how do you feel?” 2152 01:45:08,400 –> 01:45:11,119 in English, I don’t know, I understood a little, 2153 01:45:11,119 –> 01:45:13,760 I said “sir”, I kissed his hand I said “we 2154 01:45:13,760 –> 01:45:16,800 waited 5 years for you.” 2155 01:45:17,599 –> 01:45:21,679 and I had pneumonia, I was cold, I was – 2156 01:45:21,679 –> 01:45:24,080 they took me to the hospital 2157 01:45:24,080 –> 01:45:26,880 over there, and as the war ended it was 2158 01:45:26,880 –> 01:45:28,599 like nothing happened – the Germans, 2159 01:45:28,599 –> 01:45:31,040 right away, treat you like a patient – 2160 01:45:31,040 –> 01:45:36,960 it’s the – the change was so drastic, the 2161 01:45:36,960 –> 01:45:39,639 racial policies, you see after the war the 2162 01:45:39,639 –> 01:45:42,520 German women with black soldiers, 2163 01:45:42,520 –> 01:45:46,440 it’s like everything – like there was no 2164 01:45:46,440 –> 01:45:49,520 Hitler, was no Nazis, nobody was a Nazi, 2165 01:45:49,520 –> 01:45:51,159 everything was like “Mitgang” as they 2166 01:45:51,159 –> 01:45:53,520 call it, like they have to run after him, 2167 01:45:53,520 –> 01:45:55,599 everybody denies it – we didn’t know nothing, we 2168 01:45:55,599 –> 01:45:58,639 didn’t know nothing, we were – it was not 2169 01:45:58,639 –> 01:46:01,080 our fault. I went to the hospital, it was all 2170 01:46:01,080 –> 01:46:03,480 German staff, they treated me like a real patient. 2171 01:46:03,480 –> 01:46:07,639 Maybe they were afraid of the British. 2172 01:46:07,639 –> 01:46:11,360 And this was my ordeal that I survived. 2173 01:46:11,360 –> 01:46:13,320 How I survived, I don’t know, but that’s 2174 01:46:13,320 –> 01:46:15,679 what I’m telling you – from 8,000 2175 01:46:15,679 –> 01:46:18,920 people, 37 they took off the boat, and the rest all 2176 01:46:18,920 –> 01:46:22,000 drowned like mice. Only the five swam. The next 2177 01:46:22,000 –> 01:46:24,119 year, I was over there in Neustadt and we used to 2178 01:46:24,119 –> 01:46:25,920 go, it was normal after a year, we used 2179 01:46:25,920 –> 01:46:27,880 to go swim – you couldn’t swim, you’d get a 2180 01:46:27,880 –> 01:46:31,560 terrible rash. And the next spring, 2181 01:46:31,560 –> 01:46:34,239 the bodies used to swim out all blown up 2182 01:46:34,239 –> 01:46:36,280 like that and the British used to take the German 2183 01:46:36,280 –> 01:46:38,400 prisoners of war to pick them up, 2184 01:46:38,400 –> 01:46:41,000 the bodies over there. 2185 01:46:41,000 –> 01:46:43,000 The same year, the next year, they brought 2186 01:46:43,000 –> 01:46:45,440 underwater divers with special cutting 2187 01:46:45,440 –> 01:46:47,639 tools and they opened up the ship, 2188 01:46:47,639 –> 01:46:49,599 the whole of the ship, and started 2189 01:46:49,599 –> 01:46:54,840 taking out the – 2190 01:46:55,119 –> 01:46:58,280 and I understand there’s a guy, 2191 01:46:58,280 –> 01:47:01,280 Adam my foreman and everything, 2192 01:47:01,280 –> 01:47:03,080 his brother, his two brothers with him, 2193 01:47:03,080 –> 01:47:05,360 they all died over there by trying to get out. 2194 01:47:05,360 –> 01:47:08,480 For some reason, if the ship would go to 2195 01:47:08,480 –> 01:47:12,360 the other side, I don’t know – 2196 01:47:12,360 –> 01:47:20,520 I believe – I don’t know – and that’s what 2197 01:47:20,520 –> 01:47:23,119 I also told you. I was sure after the war, 2198 01:47:23,119 –> 01:47:25,320 the world is going to hold on my hands and 2199 01:47:25,320 –> 01:47:27,560 nothing were they going to refuse you. 2200 01:47:27,560 –> 01:47:31,320 What they did to you, they put you in a DP camp, 2201 01:47:31,320 –> 01:47:33,800 and they gave you a soup a day and said 2202 01:47:33,800 –> 01:47:35,840 “my dear friend you’re on your own, that’s 2203 01:47:35,840 –> 01:47:39,199 it be happy, be happy you survived.” 2204 01:47:39,199 –> 01:47:41,440 Yes, they gave you every night, it was a 2205 01:47:41,440 –> 01:47:43,080 military camp they have a big cinema, 2206 01:47:43,080 –> 01:47:44,480 every night they give you a German – 2207 01:47:44,480 –> 01:47:47,639 these comedies, a movie and that’s 2208 01:47:47,639 –> 01:47:50,679 what it – and Jews were 2209 01:47:50,679 –> 01:47:53,000 lucky because we have the … 2210 01:47:53,000 –> 01:47:55,639 the United Jewish Relief, and they sent 2211 01:47:55,639 –> 01:47:57,840 everything, they – a cigarette 2212 01:47:57,840 –> 01:48:01,840 they had coffee, … 2213 01:48:01,840 –> 01:48:04,719 Was the DP camp in Neustadt? Yes. And how long 2214 01:48:04,719 –> 01:48:11,400 were you there? I was there for about 2 and a half years. 2215 01:48:11,400 –> 01:48:15,440 I worked for the Jewish Relief Unit, it was a 2216 01:48:15,440 –> 01:48:18,239 British, Mr. Cart was in charge, it was a 2217 01:48:18,239 –> 01:48:21,000 British unit. Also I was like an 2218 01:48:21,000 –> 01:48:23,599 interpreter, all these Jewish 2219 01:48:23,599 –> 01:48:26,719 to English, and we 2220 01:48:26,719 –> 01:48:29,239 had some stuff from Ireland Jewish … 2221 01:48:29,239 –> 01:48:31,920 And one Rosenberg she was from 2222 01:48:31,920 –> 01:48:39,880 South Africa. But I could go to 2223 01:48:39,880 –> 01:48:41,560 Britain, be adopted by a Jewish 2224 01:48:41,560 –> 01:48:44,440 family, go to Britain. But I decide no. 2225 01:48:44,440 –> 01:48:47,440 After what I went – I’m going to go to Israel 2226 01:48:47,440 –> 01:48:52,520 you know to be my own, it’s time – 2227 01:48:52,520 –> 01:48:54,159 Israel started fighting 2228 01:48:54,159 –> 01:48:57,840 for independence and I decide that my 2229 01:48:57,840 –> 01:48:59,639 future would be with the Jewish 2230 01:48:59,639 –> 01:49:04,400 people. Did you go into the Haganah? Yes, in Bergen-Belsen I joined. 2231 01:49:04,400 –> 01:49:09,679 I went to the Kibbutz, and over there I joined the Haganah. 2232 01:49:10,560 –> 01:49:14,679 And you lived in Israel how long? 2233 01:49:14,679 –> 01:49:16,280 For 19 years. 2234 01:49:16,280 –> 01:49:18,840 Where and what did you do? 2235 01:49:18,840 –> 01:49:23,199 First I worked in the electric 2236 01:49:23,199 –> 01:49:26,239 company, in the Israeli electric company. 2237 01:49:26,239 –> 01:49:29,440 And I was two years in the military, 1948 I 2238 01:49:29,440 –> 01:49:31,639 fought the 1948 war. 2239 01:49:31,639 –> 01:49:41,920 After, I worked in the Palestine electric company for five years. 2240 01:49:41,920 –> 01:49:46,000 After, I had my own shop for 10 years. 2241 01:49:46,000 –> 01:49:49,880 Until 1967, I fought in the 1956 war, 2242 01:49:49,880 –> 01:49:52,920 and I fought in the 1967 war in November 2243 01:49:52,920 –> 01:49:56,480 1967 I came here to the United States. 2244 01:49:56,480 –> 01:49:58,880 And your family – you married in Israel? 2245 01:49:58,880 –> 01:50:02,919 I married, my children are born in Israel, my wife is Israeli born. 2246 01:50:02,920 –> 01:50:09,239 So you haven’t been far from war all of your life? 2247 01:50:09,239 –> 01:50:13,880 Yes, you see, you can imagine that it 2248 01:50:13,880 –> 01:50:15,840 took many people decide different 2249 01:50:15,840 –> 01:50:18,159 because I was not so idealistic they 2250 01:50:18,159 –> 01:50:20,840 think different because after all I lost 2251 01:50:20,840 –> 01:50:23,880 everybody and I – war, a 2252 01:50:23,880 –> 01:50:27,119 bullet has no address – you go to 2253 01:50:27,119 –> 01:50:29,800 war you can get killed and wiped out 2254 01:50:29,800 –> 01:50:32,880 and then – 6,000 died only in the 2255 01:50:32,880 –> 01:50:34,880 Independence war – can you imagine, at that time 2256 01:50:34,880 –> 01:50:37,040 10% of the population – many of them were 2257 01:50:37,040 –> 01:50:39,560 new immigrants that no brother, no sister, nobody 2258 01:50:39,560 –> 01:50:41,920 knows about. I had some cousin over there 2259 01:50:41,920 –> 01:50:44,239 in Israel, at least somebody would 2260 01:50:44,239 –> 01:50:45,960 cry a little after me, 2261 01:50:45,960 –> 01:50:49,119 remember me. But that’s it – I 2262 01:50:49,119 –> 01:50:52,000 just disregarded everything – I 2263 01:50:52,000 –> 01:50:58,599 said no, after I went wrong, and this was a big plus 2264 01:50:58,599 –> 01:51:02,040 psychologically – they give you a big boost 2265 01:51:02,040 –> 01:51:05,800 because I know people who 2266 01:51:05,800 –> 01:51:07,560 went to other countries, who went to 2267 01:51:07,560 –> 01:51:09,480 concentration camps, they had nightmares, 2268 01:51:09,480 –> 01:51:13,560 they can’t forget – they feel they didn’t 2269 01:51:13,560 –> 01:51:15,719 feel good in the environment, there 2270 01:51:15,719 –> 01:51:19,800 was a strange – 2271 01:51:19,800 –> 01:51:23,199 Israel gave you the pride, 2272 01:51:23,199 –> 01:51:25,960 give you a prospect, give you an 2273 01:51:25,960 –> 01:51:29,560 outlook, give you – a meaning to your life. 2274 01:51:29,560 –> 01:51:32,599 You were proud – you didn’t go – in 2275 01:51:32,599 –> 01:51:35,880 1956 war, my son was born, only a month old, 2276 01:51:35,880 –> 01:51:38,960 he wasn’t even – he was circumcised 2277 01:51:38,960 –> 01:51:42,280 Wednesday and Thursday I took 2278 01:51:42,280 –> 01:51:44,280 my kit bag and I went to war, that’s it. 2279 01:51:44,280 –> 01:51:47,599 Kiss my wife and this is not a 2280 01:51:47,599 –> 01:51:49,800 thing, you’re a soldier, you’re 2281 01:51:49,800 –> 01:51:53,119 in your own country, that’s it. 2282 01:51:53,119 –> 01:51:54,960 Over the years have you found 2283 01:51:54,960 –> 01:51:58,119 it easier to talk about the Holocaust or 2284 01:51:58,119 –> 01:52:00,040 to talk about the things you talked 2285 01:52:00,040 –> 01:52:02,719 about here or is it hard for you to? 2286 01:52:02,719 –> 01:52:06,480 I don’t talk because you 2287 01:52:06,480 –> 01:52:08,920 talk about it – 2288 01:52:08,920 –> 01:52:12,800 it’s – you have kids and 2289 01:52:12,800 –> 01:52:16,560 it can bring resentment toward 2290 01:52:16,560 –> 01:52:18,560 other people, you know how it is. 2291 01:52:18,560 –> 01:52:21,960 I don’t want to poison their life. 2292 01:52:21,960 –> 01:52:24,719 I went through it, it was a – 2293 01:52:24,719 –> 01:52:28,079 but I told them always, don’t 2294 01:52:28,079 –> 01:52:32,159 forget, you were born a 2295 01:52:32,159 –> 01:52:35,159 Jew, you will live a Jew, you will die a 2296 01:52:35,159 –> 01:52:37,280 Jew. Nothing going to – don’t try 2297 01:52:37,280 –> 01:52:39,679 even to forget it, because others don’t let 2298 01:52:39,679 –> 01:52:42,119 you forget it. That’s it. You 2299 01:52:42,119 –> 01:52:45,560 stand up for who you are and be proud of it. 2300 01:52:45,560 –> 01:52:47,520 If you think you change your name, you 2301 01:52:47,520 –> 01:52:49,040 change you’ll manage, you change your 2302 01:52:49,040 –> 01:52:51,760 friends – nothing is going to help you. 2303 01:52:51,760 –> 01:52:53,920 Just stand up for your rights and that’s it. 2304 01:52:53,920 –> 01:52:57,679 And if somebody tries to tell 2305 01:52:57,679 –> 01:52:59,679 you something, that he’s better than you, 2306 01:52:59,679 –> 01:53:02,159 then let them know that he’s not. You don’t 2307 01:53:02,159 –> 01:53:04,920 have to feel … 2308 01:53:04,920 –> 01:53:07,480 human being, and you … 2309 01:53:07,480 –> 01:53:09,000 if you want to have your rights, 2310 01:53:09,000 –> 01:53:10,960 you have to fight for it, and if you have 2311 01:53:10,960 –> 01:53:14,159 to take a gun, and fight for it, 2312 01:53:14,159 –> 01:53:16,320 then you take a gun and fight for it. 2313 01:53:16,320 –> 01:53:19,199 Because that’s it or you get killed or 2314 01:53:19,199 –> 01:53:22,119 you kill somebody. There’s no way out. 2315 01:53:22,119 –> 01:53:25,280 Because the Jews, what the Jews went through, 2316 01:53:25,280 –> 01:53:28,000 they always accommodate 2317 01:53:28,000 –> 01:53:31,119 everybody, they always try to 2318 01:53:31,119 –> 01:53:33,320 smooth things out, they always try to pay 2319 01:53:33,320 –> 01:53:35,599 off to let them live, they always make – 2320 01:53:35,599 –> 01:53:39,360 find peace, and it doesn’t work. 2321 01:53:39,360 –> 01:53:42,040 It hasn’t worked for 2,000 years and it’s 2322 01:53:42,040 –> 01:53:45,199 not going to work now. That’s it. 2323 01:53:45,199 –> 01:53:47,520 Thank you very much, Mr. Biezunski, for a very 2324 01:53:47,520 –> 01:53:50,719 informative and interesting story. And thank 2325 01:53:50,719 –> 01:53:55,599 you for sharing it with us. You’re welcome. --- --- title: "“Saba’s Account”" canonical: https://www.biezunski.com/sabas-account format: text/markdown --- # “Saba’s Account” Human-readable page: https://www.biezunski.com/sabas-account ![Dan paying respect to his Saba](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Capture-1.png) *Dan paying respect to his Saba* It all started for Dan’s grandfather, Shlomo Biezunski, when he was born in 1926 in the town of Lodz, Poland which was a major center of textiles before the war often called the “Manchester of Poland”. His family lived in the Jewish section of the town where they owned a drug store. He lived with his older sister Manya, his father Moshe, and his mother Pearl. Right after World War I, his father fought in the 1920 Polish-Soviet War and was present for the decisive victory against the communists in the Battle of Warsaw where the Russians were repulsed, and Poland became an independent state. After the war his family enjoyed a solidly middle-class lifestyle and even lived in a 6-room apartment next to a fancy hotel called the “Polonia”. Shlomo recalls the new elevator systems installed in several buildings, including his own, and how they were particularly enrapturing to the Poles of the time. His family’s store was on the bottom floor which his family ran with the help of a young girl hired as a clerk. School started for Shlomo at age 7 and was his life for the next 6 years. He was a particularly avid reader and would find himself at the local library on many days. Shlomo remembers being able to grasp written language from an early age, as he still can recall reading his first shocking headlines detailing the carnage of the Spanish Civil War of 36-39, which ironically became a dress rehearsal for WWII as the Spanish Nationalists were supported militarily by Hitler and their Republican government which was being backed by several future Allies. However, somewhat unusually, Shlomo had avoided any personal encounters with anti-Semitism in his childhood despite seeing it from afar in racially charged public labor/student strikes. Shlomo attributes this to two main factors within his life. First being that they were a solidly middle-class family, meaning they were respected by the community at large and ran a thriving store. Second, Biezunski is a very Polish name according to Shlomo and the Poles at the time would not be able to deduce his Jewish background from his name alone. Nevertheless, despite being able to remain inconspicuous due to his Polish descent, his family would not be safe from the fanatical anti-Semitism that the Nazis would bring upon Poland when they chose it to be their first target in what quickly exploded into the second world war. September 1 st , 1939, Hitler’s blitzkrieg (“lightning war”) on Poland began, and Shlomo’s life would be changed forever. Shlomo’s hometown of Lodz was bombed early on, however it resulted in little devastation as the Nazi commander in the region, Franken, was a German-Pole and did not want to cause unnecessary harm to Polish civilians. After six days, Warsaw was encircled, and Poland was effectively neutralized. As tribute to the victorious army, the civilians were supposed to line the streets and greet the Nazis which was their typical routine. When they were captured, Shlomo says they were not sad, but quite jubilant. They expected respect and prosperity to result from being conquered by such a great Nazi regime and hoped that their nation would now too share in the wealth of the ever-growing empire. Shlomo remembers this day well and says that even he was impressed by the Nazi military machine and vividly remembers a huge swastika flying from the roof of city hall. In the first months, Shlomo recalls respecting and being respected by the German army soldiers stationed there. It pains me to imagine what false hope for the future this may have instilled within him and his family prior to what would be the greatest genocide in human history. With the entrance of the Gestapo and SS a few months after the invasion, came the end of feelings of equality and or human decency for Shlomo for the next several years of his life.  Shlomo said that shortly after the arrival of the Gestapo and SS, several local Jewish families began leaving including his father’s Jewish store clerk. However, because both his parents spoke fluent German, they hired an Aryan-looking girl named Eva to replace their old clerk; they thought they could fool any Nazis they would be questioned by as they looked nothing like the caricatured propaganda images of Jews presented to the German people. Things began to get rough for Shlomo’s family, but they were aided partially by the help of a kind administrative officer living downstairs that offered to help them if the Nazis ever gave them trouble, and sometimes gave them bread. Then the war finally struck home for Shlomo. That January the Gestapo came to pick up Shlomo’s father and hundreds of other Jews, namely army veterans, to electric trolley cars and made them pack inside. They were then machinegunned to death. The officers decided to then call the families and make them pick up the bodies of their loved ones. Shlomo, at age 13, brought his favorite Canadian sled to the site of the massacre and with the help of a friend he dragged his father’s body to the local Jewish cemetery so that he could be given a proper Jewish burial. This proper service was denied to nearly all the victims of the Holocaust. Despite this shattering blow to the family, his mother a strong business woman managed to recover as much assets from the store as possible and close it down. This was perfect timing as in May they were told to relocate to the new Jewish Quarter, the Nazi-run Lodz Ghetto. Upon arriving there by tram, his family was each given different jobs in the ghetto to help fuel the Nazi war effort. Shlomo was put into a machine shop and even given minor schooling and training by the Nazis on how to operate the necessary machinery. Some old customers who knew his father helped his family during these tough times, as they still held prominence in the community. The strong would die first because of lack of food, Shlomo’s habitual “bad eating” and skinny features helped him get through these times. Eventually, Shlomo’s mother was arrested for unknown reasons and kept for three weeks. When she returned, he recalls her not being the same women mentally or physically as she had lost a tremendous amount of weight. Then in 1942, the anti-Semitic activity in the ghetto greatly increased and his family experienced horrifying abuses. Resistance was impossible with the armed enemies all around as even the local Poles were happy to get rid of the Jews who were business competitors in the pre-war years. Despite the danger, Shlomo risked his life participating in a metal workers’ strike in the ghetto. In 1944, the Russians gathered across the Vistula as their vengeful offensive pushed ever westward. Shlomo and his fellow workers were told they were being sent into the heart of Germany to help turn the tide of the war back in favor of Germany by fueling their industry. The real reason was that the German reinforcements were nonexistent due to Hitler’s inept military planning after his high-risk Operation Barbarossa failed tremendously and the furious Russian counterattack which followed gained enough momentum to push them all the way back to their own borders. After being given, scraps of food, they are crammed into train cars and end up at what many described to be Hell on Earth, the front gates of Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp. The throngs were shoved off the trains as if they were filled cattle and they were split into two groups: those that can work and those who cannot. Shlomo is deemed fit enough to work; however, his sister and mother were weary from the travels and were deemed unfit. This split was unfortunately the last time he would see his mother or sister. They were up stripped of their valuables, gassed and thrown into mass Jewish graves thousands of miles from their home. However, Shlomo’s story was far from over. Shlomo claims he remembers never being sick. He saw many die around him from typhus, tuberculosis, and beatings. He had a strong will to survive; he remembers sitting next to young man who had lost hope one day and tells Shlomo, “I want to be dead”, he tried to convince that he is strong and could continue on. The next day, he looked over and the boy was dead in the same place without anyone having touched him. One day the Gestapo came looking for “skilled craftsmen” and Shlomo stood up saying he was a “layman”. The officer looked at him up and down before saying in German that he can be of use. This was Shlomo’s ticket to life as inevitably he would have died inside the walls of Auschwitz, a death camp, designed for the sole purpose of the mass genocide. He was one of 360 taken to a coal mine; when they arrived all their hair was shaved off, and disinfectant poured on their heads. Shlomo remembers well the irritation this caused him on his first night. Then the next day he was given a uniform, wooden shoes, and a good meal, his first in a long time, and sent to work in the mines. A young SS lieutenant named Schmidt is placed in charge of Shlomo’s group of workers. In an incredible stroke of luck, he was a new replacement for the old commander who were transferred to Auschwitz due to his extreme proficiency for murdering people. Schmidt was an entirely different Nazi, he treated the Jews as equals and never discriminated. The reason he got control of the camp was because his father-in-law owned the mine before the war. He had family nearby and he even recalls his wife cooking food for the camp workers, something completely against Nazi dogma. He was then transferred to a machine shop where he continued to be fed well which helped his strength return in the later stages of the war. In January 1945, the big Nazi retreat to Berlin began as the Allied attack on Hitler reached its terrible climax. Having gained his strength, Shlomo began to march for 80 kilometers to an unknown destination. He was greatly aided by the shoes he got in the machine shop and a poncho he fashioned out a large piece of material. Anybody who straggled from the group or tried to escape was shot. He remembers hearing the constant ringing of gunshots from the back of the column. He arrived at Gliwice, and then saw piles stacked high with bodies like logs covered in lime, a stark reminder of what was still going on around him. He was then put on another train for a whole week that had to take an extended route to Germany due to the Allied advance. When they got off the train, they were greeted by Croatian SS where Shlomo was given a little bread and nothing else for days. To survive he had to mix snow and lime to eat for nutrition. Soon the floor was so full of dead bodies they were standing on them. Eventually they were transported to Czechoslovakia by truck. Shlomo remembers how desperate things were getting as he was covered in scratches from constant scuffles and now his group has dwindled down to 2,000 from 10,000. Shlomo spent a few days at the Nordhausen concentration camp, and unfortunately had to witness several hangings of people who were caught trying to escape. At this point in the war, SS officers were desperate to find business to do at the camp because if they were caught idle they were being ordered to the frontlines to help defend the Fatherland which was basically a death sentence. He was put under the charge of an older nondiscriminatory SS officer who selected him to go work as a craftsman somewhere elsewhere. When he got there, he remembers not being forced into labor intensively and he remembers feeling the end of the war coming. He marched from the Elbe River, up to the Kaiser Wilhelm canal where he was then brought to Ansbach. Where he then worked on a farm that housed around one hundred Jews in a single farm house; they were used to do local farm work, but he recalls being treated supremely in comparison to his other workplaces. Now with the war in its end stages, Shlomo’s group was taken to a German sub base and was told they will be brought to Sweden by a German ocean liner, the SS Cap Arcona. After being stuffed with 10 people in a room, meant for one in a top floor deck, the boat was caught under fire shortly after it embarked because it got caught in an ensuring skirmish by invading British forces and was bombed by Allied aircraft and slowly sunk. By sheer luck and determination, skinny Shlomo pushes past everyone to sneak on deck and manage to swim clear of the boat and the forming whirlpool caused from sinking. He was picked up later that night by fishermen commissioned by the British army to search the water for survivors. He was 1 of 37 who was picked and with this last miraculous instance of beating the odds, Shlomo’s ultimately tragic Holocaust experience was effectively over. Shlomo’s story is a true testament of the will of the human spirit to survive and endure. After the Holocaust my grandfather went to Israel to start his life. He met my grandma, Bella, and had two sons Oded and Ram. He also helped to solidify not only his freedom but the new freedom of the Jewish State of Israel, by fighting in the Palmach in the War for Independence and then again in the Six Day War. ## Photo gallery - ![Dan paying respect to his Saba](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Capture-1.png): Dan paying respect to his Saba --- --- title: "Jewish Federation" canonical: https://www.biezunski.com/jewish-federation format: text/markdown --- # Jewish Federation Human-readable page: https://www.biezunski.com/jewish-federation In his later years, Shlomo Biezunski was an active member of the Jewish Federation of Northern New Jersey. Below are images captured during events hosted by the Jewish Federation. ![Shlomo enjoying some wine at a Passover Seder](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-wine-glass-good-1.jpg) *Shlomo enjoying some wine at a Passover Seder* ![Shlomo pictured with Regina Salomon at a Chanukah party in 2015](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Regina-Salomon-Shlomo-1.jpg) *Shlomo pictured with Regina Salomon at a Chanukah party in 2015* ![Shlomo (left) pictured with Regina Salomon (middle) and Henia Gerson (right) in 2017](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-Regina-Henia-1.jpg) *Shlomo (left) pictured with Regina Salomon (middle) and Henia Gerson (right) in 2017* ![Shlomo and Pavel Goldhersch at Cafe Europa in 2013](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Cafe-Eruopa-4-2013-2.jpeg) *Shlomo and Pavel Goldhersch at Cafe Europa in 2013* In 2016, Shlomo attended a Holocaust Remembrance Event hosted by the Jewish Federation. ![Shlomo (right) pictured with his son, Michael (middle) in 2016](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-Biezunski-lights-candle.jpg) *Shlomo (right) pictured with his son, Michael (middle) in 2016* > May 2016 Shlomo Biezunski I was born Salomon Biezunski in Lodz, Poland on May 13, 1926. My parents, Moshe and Perel, owned a cosmetic store that carried men’s and women’s accessories. The store was on the street level of a large building where we lived on the third floor. My grandparents also lived in the building. My sister, Manya was 6 years older than me. She attended public school and then secretarial school. I attended a private Jewish school and expected to go to gymnasium until the war interrupted my plans. Prior the war, there was not much anti-Semitism. Lodz was a diverse textile center with well- organized unions offering good benefits. On September 5, 1939, the Germans marched into Lodz. Everywhere we saw big placards saying to greet the German army. I was 13 years old and went out to watch. I was astounded. It was unbelievable to see all of the motorized machinery and manpower. The Polish Army had only horses. In early 1940, my father was taken off the street and never seen again. Across from our store was the Hotel Polonia, which became Nazi headquarters. My mother now ran the store and many Nazis became frequent customers. She decided to liquidate the inventory for the cash needed to buy supplies for our family. She had a shoemaker make pockets in our shoes where we hid gold coins which my mother used to barter. In May, 1940 the Nazis came and the ghetto was established. My mother, Manya and I were sent to the Polish section were there was open land and free standing houses. We were given one room with a stove in the center. I worked in a metal factory learning to operate a lathe. Manya was a secretary in a women’s clothing factory. My mother worked in a factory that made the straw coverings German soldiers wore over their boots. We were constantly hungry. We were able to grow some vegetables. Each week we received a loaf of bread, brown sugar and oil. We were in the ghetto until it was liquidated in August 1944. We tried to hide but there were guards everywhere. We carried what we could to the train station. They gave us bread and a head of cabbage. We were on a train for 3 days before we reached Birkenau. The men and women were separated. It was the last time I saw my mother and Manya. We were lined up and stood for 8 hours. Those who fell died on that spot. Those who survived were given soup. All my clothes were taken except for my shirt and a belt. My head was shaved and my mouth examined for gold fillings. Number B6901 was etched on my arm. Later, we were assembled and stood naked as we were inspected by the commandant, Max Schmidt, and a civilian engineer. Their theory was that if your body was fleshy you were fit to work, but if you were just bones, you were sent to the crematorium. The SS guard said I was not capable of work. But the engineer was looking for workers for a machine shop by a new coal mine in the Furstengrube sub-camp. He asked me my trade. When I replied I worked on a lathe he said he could use me. He was my ticket to life. At Furstengrube, we were a group of 25 among 1200 prisoners. I could not work in my clothes which were too big and my wooden shoes. I received a striped uniform, an extra shirt, Bata shoes, and a proper apron. I wore a red and yellow Jewish star on my shirt. One day while I was working on a big plate, my apron covered the star. Schmidt asked if I was Russian. He was surprised that a Jew, so young, could be a specialized worker. We walked 1⁄2 mile each way to the factory. In the morning, we had coffee and soup for lunch. We were given bread three times a day. It was like manna from heaven. During the 4 years in the ghetto, we had not seen bread. I divided it, eating bits throughout the day. It brought me back to life. In January 1945, the Russians we approaching Auschwitz. We were marched to a sub-camp, Gleiwitz. Fortunately, I had my warm blanket when we were put in open train cars to go to Germany. We took a circuitous route through Czechoslovakia where people dropped water and food to us as we passed under trestles. We arrived in the Hartz Mountains at Dora-Mittelbau. Max Schmidt had come with us, keeping us all together. We marched to Halberstadt and Magdeburg on the Rhine River where we boarded a barge to Lubeck on the North Sea. Schmidt had brought us here because it was where his family lived. They had a farm in Arensbeck. We prisoners shared the barn, half and half, with the SS who were guarding us. Schmidt and his wife stayed in the main house with his parents. The guards would offer the local farmers prisoner labor in exchange for food. One guard told me not to run away. The war was ending. On May 3rd, Schmidt instructed the guards to take us to the German Navy Base. We found the sailors waiting to surrender to the British. Four ships were housing prisoners in Neustadt Bay; the Cap Arcona, Thielback, Deutschland and Athen. The Athen captain said his ship was full and would not take us aboard. We watched in amazement as the RAF attacked all four ships flying white flags. They all sank and 7,000 people died. The captain had saved our lives. Later that afternoon, British forced arrived and we were liberated. We stayed on the base which became a DP camp and were helped by the JDC. Around the end of 1946, I decided to go to Palestine. I went to the DP camp at Bergen-Belsen and met people from the Hagenah Bricha. My nickname had been Salik. Now I became Shlomo. I became an organizer, helping people reach Italy to reach ships leaving for Palestine. In April 1948, France welcomed those wanting to go to Palestine. The Red Cross met us at the border with food and water and helped put us on trains to Marseille. I was asked to stay as an organizer but I said no, I was going. I sailed on the San Antonio Shtyim, through the Strait of Gibraltar, arriving in Haifa. I was immediately drafted into the army, assigned to the 9th Regiment Negev Brigade. I fought in the War of Independence and the Sinai Campaign. I was on active duty from 1948 to 1950, and in the reserves for 19 years. We liberated the Negev; Beersheba, Sodom, Abu Gela, Aqaba and Eilat. I met an army corporal named Bella who worked at headquarters in Ramat Gan. We married in 1955 and had two sons, Ram and Oded. I worked for the Israel Electric Company and then opened my own tool and die shop. After the 1967 War, the Israel’s economy was bad. It was during the Viet Nam War. I knew of a company in the U.S. making parts for the war effort. I wrote to the Department of Labor and immediately received a visa. I came by ship to New York and then to Paterson. I never worked for that company, but instead at Universal Manufacturing. The foreman suggested I work overtime. I saved enough money to buy and furnish a house in Fair Lawn that was ready when my family arrived in 1969. After 8 years, I left Universal and worked at Sandvik until I retired. Bella and I had 5 grandchildren. She passed away in December 2012. Five of my cousins and one uncle survived the war. I light this candle in memory of my family who were murdered in the Holocaust. [Salomon Biezunski](/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Salomon-Biezunski-.pdf) After his passing, the Jewish Federation created a touching commemoration to Shlomo’s life. The passage juxtaposes the difficulties Shlomo faced as a young man with the positivity he expressed in his later years. ## Photo gallery - ![Shlomo enjoying some wine at a Passover Seder](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-wine-glass-good-1.jpg): Shlomo enjoying some wine at a Passover Seder - ![Shlomo pictured with Regina Salomon at a Chanukah party in 2015](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Regina-Salomon-Shlomo-1.jpg): Shlomo pictured with Regina Salomon at a Chanukah party in 2015 - ![Shlomo (left) pictured with Regina Salomon (middle) and Henia Gerson (right) in 2017](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-Regina-Henia-1.jpg): Shlomo (left) pictured with Regina Salomon (middle) and Henia Gerson (right) in 2017 - ![Shlomo and Pavel Goldhersch at Cafe Europa in 2013](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Cafe-Eruopa-4-2013-2.jpeg): Shlomo and Pavel Goldhersch at Cafe Europa in 2013 - ![Shlomo (right) pictured with his son, Michael (middle) in 2016](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Shlomo-Biezunski-lights-candle.jpg): Shlomo (right) pictured with his son, Michael (middle) in 2016 --- --- title: "Shlomo’s Obituary" canonical: https://www.biezunski.com/obituary format: text/markdown --- # Shlomo’s Obituary Human-readable page: https://www.biezunski.com/obituary ![Shlomo with his wife, Bella, and three of his grandchildren (Aaron, Elana, and Dan)](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/202008211303411005.jpg) *Shlomo with his wife, Bella, and three of his grandchildren (Aaron, Elana, and Dan)* Shlomo S. Biezunski of Fair Lawn, New Jersey passed away suddenly on Thursday, August 20th, 2020. He lived a long, historic life fraught with unimaginable challenges and blessings. He died at the age of 94 and was loved by all who knew him. Shlomo was born on May 13, 1926 in Lodz, Poland to father Moshe Biezunski and mother Perla (Greenberg) Biezunski. The younger of two children, he had one sister named Malka. In Lodz, his father owned a pharmacy named “BIEZUNSKA” on the ground floor of their apartment building. He and his sister both attended private Jewish schools and lived a comfortable life. That all changed when German troops marched into Lodz in September 1939. Shortly after their arrival, Shlomo’s father was murdered by the soldiers along with many other Jewish men from the area. In 1940, the occupying troops forced the family into the newly constructed Ghetto. Shlomo lived there with his mother and sister in one room, and attended school in the morning. In the evening, he worked as an apprentice in a metalworking factory, where he learned the skills that saved his life. In August 1944, the Germans begin to liquidate the Ghetto. At the age of 18, after being separated from his mother and sister, he arrived by train alone in the concentration camp known as Auschwitz-Birkenau. He would never see his mother and sister again. Eventually, the occupiers transported Shlomo to Furstengrube, one of the peripheral sub-camps of Auschwitz-Birkenau, where he worked in a machine shop until all persons evacuated the camp in January 1945. The skills that he learned in the Ghetto saved his life. From Furstengrube, under the watch of Nazi guards, he survived the Death March, with stops in several industrial work camps (Dara-Mittlebau, Turmaline) until the remaining survivors reached the German naval base at Neushdat, Germany. On May 7th, a week short of his birthday, British troops captured the base and liberated Shlomo. Neushdat became a DP (displaced person) camp, but also a place of Jewish rebirth. In the camp, he served as a gym teacher. From Neushdat, Shlomo decided to leave for Bergen-Belzen, another DP camp with an active Zionist movement. There Haganah recruited him to help bring Jews from Europe to Palestine (the Bricha). His last assignment was in 1948. From Marseilles, France, he sailed with gathered survivors to Palestine shortly before Israel’s Declaration of Independence. After basic training, he traveled to the Negev region where he served in the Armored Corps. After the war, he joined the Israel Electric Company, where he met Bella. Bella soon became his beautiful wife and mother of his two sons. After several years working for the Electric Company and fighting in the Sinai campaign, he decided to start his own business, a small tool and die making shop in Tel Aviv. A year after the Six Day War, Shlomo seized an opportunity to migrate to the United States. This was during the Vietnam War and the U.S. needed machinists. Shlomo first worked in Paterson, NJ, and later worked for Sandvik Steel until his retirement. During their retirement years, he and his wife enjoyed traveling abroad, shows on Broadway, and social gatherings with friends. He was a proud father and Zionist who loved Israel and the U.S. He was a devoted husband who took care of his wife until she passed away in 2012. His two loving sons Ram and Michael and their immediate family members survive Shlomo. Ram’s family includes his wife Gabi and their two children Yonatan and Nitzan. Michael’s family includes his wife Maria and his three children Daniel, Aaron, and Elana. ## Photo gallery - ![Shlomo with his wife, Bella, and three of his grandchildren (Aaron, Elana, and Dan)](https://www.biezunski.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/202008211303411005.jpg): Shlomo with his wife, Bella, and three of his grandchildren (Aaron, Elana, and Dan) ---